Catalina 30 vs. Freedom30

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by csharp

I have been on Sail Calculator Pro for performance comparison of the Freedom 30 vs. equal size Pearson, Oday and Catalina on hull speed and didn't notice much of a difference. Sail are actually goes to the Freedom so I assume they are comparing a 135% genoa on the others. I am somewhat concerned with difference between the Freedom and the others though, as far as motion comfort which puts the Freedom at a 4-5 point disadvantage. Is that because she is a much lighter boat? Will I feel that noticeable of a difference in both underway and at anchor?

While Bash is spot on......motion comfort is something to consider. I didnt look at the motion comfort of my boat until after the purchase.....as I slowly began to notice very little comfort in seas 2` or more.. After research I found my lil 28 footer must have been designed for more than weekenders as there is plenty of stowage below the waterline. Once I filled the stowage (never did before.....as I only weekend atm) I found the motion comfort improved greatly!

So consider it....but consider all the factors involved.

[scotty c-m]

Both are great yachts. Buy the boat you like best. Look for comfort, style, safety. What are your expected uses? Are the boats (especially the engine!!) in excellent condition? If not, pass. On today's market, there are so many boats for sale - for sail - that you should be able to find one in your price range that shows great upkeep and lots of gear. Don't rush into any deal. If you haven't sailed on that type of boat, arrange a ride through a sailing club or some other manner. If you're married, be sure that the wife likes the boat as much as you do!! There are some who feel the cat rig is less easy to reef, so you might want to check that out, but the cat rig is easily sailed. Have fun shopping!!

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by csharp

I have been on Sail Calculator Pro for performance comparison of the Freedom 30 vs. equal size Pearson, Oday and Catalina on hull speed and didn't notice much of a difference. Sail are actually goes to the Freedom so I assume they are comparing a 135% genoa on the others. I am somewhat concerned with difference between the Freedom and the others though, as far as motion comfort which puts the Freedom at a 4-5 point disadvantage. Is that because she is a much lighter boat? Will I feel that noticeable of a difference in both underway and at anchor?

csharp,

I wanted to just add quickly to some of the things that have already been said. Mainly what I wanted to say was to be very cautious about just going by the numbers. Boat design is much more than just plugging some basic information into a formula. Here is what the developer of this ratio, Ted Brewer, has to say about it (emphasis added by me):

This is a ratio that I dreamed up, tongue-in-cheek, as a measure of motion comfort but it has been widely accepted and, indeed, does provide a reasonable comparison between yachts of similar type. It is based on the fact that the faster the motion the more upsetting it is to the average person. Given a wave of X height, the speed of the upward motion depends on the displacement of the yacht and the amount of waterline area that is acted upon. Greater displacement, or lesser WL area, gives a slower motion and more comfort for any given sea state.

Beam does enter into it as wider beam increases stability, increases WL area, and generates a faster reaction. The formula takes into account the displacement, the WL area, and adds a beam factor. The intention is to provide a means to compare the motion comfort of vessels of similar type and size, not to compare that of a Lightning class sloop with that of a husky 50 foot ketch.

The CR is : Displacement in pounds/ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x B1.333). Ratios will vary from 5.0 for a light daysailer to the high 60s for a super heavy vessel, such as a Colin Archer ketch. Moderate and successful ocean cruisers, such as the Valiant 40 and Whitby 42, will fall into the low-middle 30s range.

Do consider, though, that a sailing yacht heeled by a good breeze will have a much steadier motion than one bobbing up and down in light airs on left over swells from yesterday's blow; also that the typical summertime coastal cruiser will rarely encounter the wind and seas that an ocean going yacht will meet. Nor will one human stomach keep down what another stomach will handle with relish, or with mustard and pickles for that matter! It is all relative.

This ratio really only comes into play for long periods of offshore sailing. For coastal cruising, there will be so many factors that influence sea state that you really won't ever think about this ratio.

Down in your sailing grounds, Buzzard's Bay, almost all boats are going to feel great on good days. On the days/times when a strong wind is opposed to the current in BB, almost all boats are going to pound into the chop and feel uncomfortable. On the good days, there will likely be a lot of boat traffic and the wake will be much more of a concern for comfort than the swells.

For your first sailboat, I think it is much more important to find the boat that appeals to you. What did you like when you looked at the boats last weekend? What didn't you like?

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are most likely going to spend more time sitting on your boat at a dock, mooring or at anchor than you will sailing your boat. This is true of most daysailors and cruisers. I know this sounds like heresy, but think about it. We live aboard during the summer (and hopefully full time soon ), so it might be a little skewed for us.

On a good day for coastal cruising and daysailing, you will typically spend 4-8 hours sailing. If you have a boat that is comfortable to sleep on, that may mean 1/8 to 1/3 of the time you spend on your boat in a 24-hour period is actually moving.

At anchor, you will always be on the hunt for quiet anchorages. If it is exposed or there is a lot of boat traffic, none of the 3 boats you mentioned will be that comfortable. If it's quiet, they will all be comfortable as far as motion is concerned. Preference wise, I prefer a centerline birth. I think an offset birth, like a pullman or many of the stern births are a little odd feeling in the motion. But as far as that layout, all 3 boats you listed are the same.

By the way, we say you down on the Freedom while we were working on my boat.

What did you think of the boats you looked at?

[csharp]

Sorry that we missed you last wknd. I wish that you had come over to introduce yourselves. I did not bother to call the number you had sent me as I didn't know we were in the same boatyard and also being with the broker, I did'nt feel it would be respectful to him. I had sent you my likes and dislikes about both boats at the email you had sent me but not sure that received it. In any event, you are and have been a wealth of information to me. Please know that it is appreciated.

[JK n Smitty]

Hey csharp,

No I didn't get the email.

Are you going to look at any other boats?

Jesse

[csharp]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

Hey csharp,

No I didn't get the email.

Are you going to look at any other boats?

Jesse

Hi Jesse, I am new to this forum thing, so i am never sure if I am posting to one, all or not even being sent. Is there a way to send a private message? I sent an email to a gmail account that I thought was yours. I am on this computer every night for 2-3hrs either researching reviews, reading forums or searching used boats. I am getting close to making a decision but untill I sign the papers, I will continue to look.

[bdeidson]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

If the Freedom is Cadence, she has been for sale for a while (or has been put back up for sale after a short period of ownership). Both my buddy and I looked at this boat. He felt she was a good deal at around $25K. She was in OK condition, but neither of us went as far as having a survey done.

**************

Jesse, I've been looking at this Freedom 30 on Yachtworld - we currently have an Ericson 26 and are keeping our eyes open for a larger boat. I like the idea of the Freedom's singlehanding capabilities. Can you give me any details about your impression of the Cadence?

Thanks,

Bill

[JK n Smitty]

Bill,

I just sent you a PM.

Jesse