Catalina 22 Question...

[lyl]

Most of the positive recommendations in regards to Catalina 22, I assume, come with the original centerboard design in mind. I wonder if Catalina 22 is also a great boat as a fin keel Capri.

[jmc42]

I have a Catalina 18. Its like a 22 but a bit smaller. I have the t shaped wing keel and its a great little sailboat. Getting it in at the dock is a bit trickier than than the swing keel but overall I love it.

[Jim Cate]

Hi yet again, Full,

The original Catalina 22 came both with the swing keel (not a centerboard) and a conventional fixed fin keel. The swing keel was more common because the fixed keel was much harder to trailer launch, but there were some around the SF bay area. I don't recall if any were in the SYRA one design fleet whilst I was racing there, nor do I know if there was a significant performance difference. I'd suspect the fixed keel might be better upwind because the swing keel casting was pretty rough and not particularly hydrodynamically well designed (ho, ho).

The Capri is an entirely different design.

Jim

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The original Catalina 22 came both with the swing keel (not a centerboard) and a conventional fixed fin keel.
I'd suspect the fixed keel might be better upwind because the swing keel casting was pretty rough and not particularly hydrodynamically well designed.
The Capri is an entirely different design.

I don't know why I've been writing centerboard; retractable keel, I meant to say. On the website, for Sport version, it says retractable. For the earlier versions, at various sources, they were referred as centerboard keels.
Yeah, on paper, fixed keel have to be better, but is it?
So the new Capri could be very well a bad design. Unless I find out some reliable otherwise opinion, I'll be looking for earlier models of Cat22 until then. At least, at the moment, I know that the old Cat22 with swing keel is a good sailboat. If I can find one in good condition, I'll be set for the first act of the show. Otherwise, I'll have to discover a few more options as a first serious sailboat.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by jmc42

I have a Catalina 18. Its like a 22 but a bit smaller. I have the t shaped wing keel and its a great little sailboat. Getting it in at the dock is a bit trickier than than the swing keel but overall I love it.

Good to know. I've been struggling to decide which boat will be a good first sailboat for me. There are a few courses where I'll be able to, at least, try some older Cat22s. I'll have to add a few other options on my list.

[lyl]

My earlier confusion was because how Catalina Yachts branded its Catalina 22 sailboats. As newbie, I thought Capri was just a version of Catalina 22, in fact, Capri 22 is totally a new design. To make things more complicated, they used to call Catalina 22 with swing keel, 'Capri swing keel.' Thanks to Jim's warnings, I started to pay attention to the details.
Anyhow, as of right now, I'm certain that the swing keel Cat22s produced btw 69 and 86 are good sailboats.
I guess I'm not gonna worry about this until it's time to buy. Meantime, I'll add a few more sailboats to my list and learn more about the current Capri 22 as it seems to be what I want on paper...
Thanks Jim.

[thomm225]

The sailing school here, SailTime, uses Capri 22's.

As soon as you get out of our creek, you are in the open Bay.

150 miles long by 8 miles to the West and several 1000 miles to the East.

They put up to 4 people on these boats.

I see them a lot.

They are fast and look good from a distance.

The Cat22 is an old design as compared to the Capri 22, and I'm sure you can find them cheap

SailTime Capri 22' at the dock. I believe they are using Nissan 6 hp 4 strokes with 20" shafts.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10155662647142013

They are both starter boats and perfect for inland sailing, but if you want to trailer your boat you will have to rethink this unless you get an old Cat22 swing keel

Looks like they are wanting something near $20,000 for a newer model Capri 22 which is totally ridiculous, but if you don't know boats, it might be the best way to go even though you can get a great full keel boat for around $5,000 that you can cross oceans on but you can't really trailer them

I say ridiculous because a friend of mine has his Westsail 32 up For sale asking only $29,000 and that is a full keel blue water boat with a spare running Perkins Diesel plus AC and heat

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...le-244985.html

I learned on beach cats, and the first two I bought were under $2,000 whereas the next two were new and over $10,000. This in the 1990's.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The sailing school here, SailTime, uses Capri 22's...
The Cat22 is an old design as compared to the Capri 22, and I'm sure you can find them cheap....
if you want to trailer your boat you will have to rethink this unless you get an old Cat22 swing keel...
Looks like they are wanting something near $20,000 for a newer model Capri 22 which is totally ridiculous, but if you don't know boats, it might be the best way to go even though you can get a great full keel boat for around $5,000 that you can cross oceans on but you can't really trailer them... I say ridiculous because a friend of mine has his Westsail 32 up For sale asking only $29,000...

This was very helpful and promising.
I've also found a few sailing courses where I'll be moving to, and they all have some version of Cat22 or Capri22. I cannot wait to try one; I think most of my concerns will be eliminated after some hands on fun.
I'll never trailer my sailboat, ever. I'm 'also' considering swing keel Cat22s because of a couple of other reasons:
1. Used sailboat market will dictate what boat I can get my hands on. If I find a swing keel early model Cat22 in good condition for a great price, I'll jump on it. It'll be dirt cheap, and I know that it sails just fine.
2. Everyone who talked highly about Cat22s meant the older swing keel models. In the 70s, the fixed keel was added to the product line, but what if the fixed keel sails horribly. I've not heard from a sailor who owned or used fin keel version yet. If the fin keel sails great as well and can be found in the used market for a reasonable price, of course I'll go with the fixed keel...
That Westsail 32 could make a nice second sailboat for me, but I think I wanna learn and gain experience on a nicely designed 22 - 25 ft fin keel in the beginning. Jim has had some sort of Harrison Ford effect on me!? He has highly influenced how I approach my becoming a good sailor path.
The sailaway price of a brand new Cat 22 Sport or Capri 22 is getting close to 40k. Unless, I'll be the first and the last owner of it, I can never get worth of my money. So the price tag will also play a great deal of role here in the decision process.
A used Catalina 22 or even a 25, dirt cheap but in condition... If i can find that, then I'm just fine with a swing keel as well. I won't ever trailer it, but i might enjoy some shallow waters at least. Maybe, beachable instead of anhoring away from a beach - hopefully I used the terms correctly here.

[lyl]

I've just read about several fix keel cat22s. Fix keel sails better than swing; it appears to be according to the owners' experiences. Some even sailed them both, and I like what they said about fin keels. In this case, I think I'll pass the swing ones and only look for fin keels. so many details to consider; I think I'll become a philosopher before becoming a sailor...

[Jim Cate]

I think I'll become a philosopher before becoming a sailor...

I suspect that you will find that your philosophy changes when you have become a sailor, Full... at least mine did!

Jim

[thomm225]

After seeing the prices you might pay for a Capri 22, I remembered what a friend of mine has been sailing these last few years. (An older model Hunter 27)

He seems to never go out unless the winds are 17-18 knots or higher and usually with his kids. Two young girls under 10 and a teenage son.

He was from France and here working at NATO. He has now returned home and sold the boat to another Frenchman.

Here is an example of his boat. He had an outboard on his this one has a diesel. His boat may be a bit newer.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...er-27-3728606/

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

An older model Hunter 27 https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...er-27-3728606/

Good idea.

[lyl]

Bad news... My moving to the seaside dreams have been postponed. It'll be three something years before I can be by the ocean. Good news, I'll have more locations to choose. Still, such a bummer. Anyhow, I've learned a lot while debiliating about which boat to buy. Thanks a lot everyone, especially Jim...
Yesterday, I rented a Windrider 17 again, just to get my mind away from the realities of my life. Man, I have to admit I love speeding on water. That thing sails fast, and something in me kept hollering, "Faster!" Windrider is a strange boat. It has two seater tandem cockpit, and you control the rudder by stepping on pedals with your feet. You just sit still on your seat all dry as the boat goes crazy fast. Plenty to maintain, but fun when maintenance is not your problem. I'll also be building my outrigger canoe. I'll be looking for a 17ft aliminum canoe with sponsons, then I'll be ordering stuff from here, https://www.sailboatstogo.com/content/Canoe_Sailing. Pretty much, it'll be a trimaran of its own kind. I've been researching for full keels and such, but I might be actually a trimaran guy after all. I love the speed and just sitting down on my seat all dry while enjoying a heck of a fast ride. Maybe, I have to take a path that will take me on something like a Corsair 37 eventually. I want to sail to the Bahamas and what better way of doing it than a fast trimaran. I wonder how it handles 'upset' weather. Despite how sturdy it looks in the photos, I think a wavy experience could cause too much stress on her pressure points. I can picture the cracks that might develop in time...
I don't know what sailboat I will end up with, but I've realized that it's not the boat that matters so much, it's the sailor. I'll have lots of time to learn old school navigation, fixing marine diesels, sailing experience on lakes around, pretty much everything in theory and some hands on exprience. At least, when the time comes, I won't look like a naive tourist with a goober smile and hands in pockets of a pair of clean shorts!?
There are great other sailboats like Dehler 29. I really like the tiller rudder on a new sailboat that size. I found that Catalina 275 could be simplified with outboard engine and such...
I'll be back here from time to time and say hi, since then wish you all the best.

[AKA-None]

Well if you want to go fast on a small boat there is always a moth

[lyl]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Well if you want to go fast on a small boat there is always a moth

yeah but not my cup of tea.