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LuvSun · 09-01-2019, 11:52

Is there a compromise in mono hulls where some you arent always on list/lean when under way but sail a bit faster than a cat but get similar level of luxury?

I was thinking something like a Jeanneau 42D perhaps?

In comparison to a Lagoon 410 Cat

Palarran · 09-01-2019, 12:00

Not really. They are always going to lean more and almost always going to be slower.

And remember, their keels fall off all the time

LuvSun · 09-01-2019, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran

Not really. They are always going to lean more and almost always going to be slower.

And remember, their keels fall off all the time

Hehe so Bias :-).

I spent 15 years in a Farr (NZ builder) 11m mono, which are more a semi race oriented hull, but not much going on in accommodation. Loved the boat. But my GF at the time couldnt handle it. So we bought a Cat and I havnt looked back. Some are real pigs. But the seawind 1160 and even the lagoon 410 arent too bad.

I just thought some Monos might list less, ie be more cruise oriented. I looked at a used jeanneau 42 on youtube being sailed back and they rarely looked like they were on the lean.

Palarran · 09-01-2019, 12:19

I know - bad me. Some do for sure, but I don't know how any can list less unless they are stabilized.

This is something you have for sure seen and experienced, but look at a full anchorage at night with a swell running. It takes zero effort to go - mono, mono, cat, mono, cat, etc. Sometimes I think "There's no way anyone is sleeping on that boat" (and grin - bad me again).

LuvSun · 09-01-2019, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran

I know - bad me. Some do for sure, but I don't know how any can list less unless they are stabilized.

This is something you have for sure seen and experienced, but look at a full anchorage at night with a swell running. It takes zero effort to go - mono, mono, cat, mono, cat, etc. Sometimes I think "There's no way anyone is sleeping on that boat" (and grin - bad me again).

Hehe too true.

When I was a true youngn, about 10 or so. I had a Caribe 14 with 40hp Yammy as I was a keen fisherman for trolling YT tuna and livebaiting Yellowtail Kingfish in NZ. I had a canopy, but Id park her up at night in this really nice sandy bay of an island and sleep on it. But then RIBs are a lot more stable than traditional tenders/dinghies. Loved that boat, learnt to spearfish on that boat. Oh the memories.

Thats why a good sized RIB on a yacht is important to me, so I can get in close to rocky weedy areas that the yacht I wouldnt risk. Find a shelf, throw some crushed up sea eggs (kina) over the sea edge to the sand and just snipeover that weed holding onto it until big snapper turn up to be shot. :-). Sorry Im day dreaming as its a nice day for being in the water today.

u4ea32 · 09-01-2019, 12:57

I am also amazed at how few monohulls use flopper-stoppers. They really work.

Heeling is definitely a difference!

Some monohulls have dramatically better motion in heavy seas, which is when fear often causes people to reject sailing. When the bridge deck starts to slam, or the akas hit waves, then the motion on a multihull can become quite violent, with dramatically higher rates of motion than on certain monohulls.

With modern boats in the charter fleets, which are all designed to look good in brochures to people living in houses, the result is no upwind capability (use that engine!) and lousy sea handling (fat ass ends on monos, wing or aka impacts on multis).

I don't think there is much performance difference between cruising boats, mono or multi. There is a huge difference in dinghy and full race boats. The potential is for a multihull to weigh substantially less, because of no lead. But the reality is that there is another hull, and the bridge deck on a cat, or two more hulls and cross beams on a tri, and those weigh more than the ballast on the mono (again, unless we are talking about full race boats), so the weight advantage often goes the other way. The enormous difference in windage means the upwind performance often goes with the mono. So overall, I rarely see a significant performance advantage one way or the other.

And of course what we see in practice: the additional space means additional gear, which further handicaps the cruising multihull, in all the worst ways: more cost, more things break, more maintenance in exotic places, dramatically higher rig loads so higher rig and sail costs.

It does not have to be so: a MOD70 is 1.5 to 2 times the speed of a Maxi72. And 40 years ago, a 50' CSK plywood cruising cat was the same speed as 72' Windward Passage. But those CSKs were very weight sensitive, and the designers, builders, and owners knew that: load them up and they go slow and break.

For a given budget, a cruiser is very likely way better off with a monohull. If interested in performance, a SC50 instead of a 40' try or cat for example. A 70' sled instead of a 45-50 foot cruising cat. These comparisons are about the same interior volume and weight carrying ability, but the monohulls will usually be substantially faster and often easier to sail (lower rig loads). And the very low VCG (vertical center of gravity) of some deep bulb keel boats, and low windage, makes them remarkable at anchor.

The major indicator for cost of a sailboat, to build or own, is displacement x righting moment. The secondary driver for cost to build and own is the complexity of onboard systems. This is less simply because some of the systems might be non-marine, but everything to do with displacement x righting moment is certainly marine gear: glass, carbon, sails, line, deck hardware, ...

contrail · 09-01-2019, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvSun

Hehe so Bias :-).

I spent 15 years in a Farr (NZ builder) 11m mono, which are more a semi race oriented hull, but not much going on in accommodation. Loved the boat. But my GF at the time couldnt handle it. So we bought a Cat and I havnt looked back. Some are real pigs. But the seawind 1160 and even the lagoon 410 arent too bad.

I just thought some Monos might list less, ie be more cruise oriented. I looked at a used jeanneau 42 on youtube being sailed back and they rarely looked like they were on the lean.

They are probably motorsailing......(lPalarran, surprised you didn't catch that one

)

Tillsbury · 09-01-2019, 13:52

If you stay sailing where cats usually do, i.e. 60-70 degrees off the wind or more, then there's no reason a monohull should be really leaning at all. If it is, you've probably got too much sail up or you're racing.

Dooglas · 10-01-2019, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran

I know - bad me. Some do for sure, but I don't know how any can list less unless they are stabilized.

A shorter rig and more weight in the keel. Its physics.

And, as Tillsbury says - you don't claw to windward in a cat, no more reason why you need to claw to windward in a monohull unless you choose to.

Mike Banks · 10-01-2019, 12:28

What you need if pace is your thing with the comfortable important is a trimaran. Something like a Simpson, Cross, Marples etc--preferably built in foam glass sandwich or solid glass.

Lotsa luck berthing it solo in a tight marina with a strong cross wind though. I always anchored out until the wind fell and the tide was manageable, then went in in reverse. One has to call up a marina person to fend off if necessary if one has no crew aboard..

Palarran · 10-01-2019, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

What you need if pace is your thing with the comfortable important is a trimaran. Something like a Simpson, Cross, Marples etc--preferably built in foam glass sandwich or solid glass.

Lotsa luck berthing it solo in a tight marina with a strong cross wind though. I always anchored out until the wind fell and the tide was manageable, then went in in reverse. One has to call up a marina person to fend off if necessary if one has no crew aboard..

I think the op was hoping to be able to actually live in the boat though.

leboyd · 10-01-2019, 13:46

To get close to space compared to a Lagoon 410, I would think you need to go bigger than the 42, something like a Beneteau Oceanis 50. For similar years, they are similarly priced. What you lose in beam, you gain in length, although I don't know of any 50' mono that has the same sq ft as the Lagoon 410. The longer/wider 50 with the sails set correctly will not lean too much and will sail at a good speed.