Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Watch who you're calling old! I'm 45!

Well, I'm not having this argument with you for the next 30 years.

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[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It's disengenuous to say that production boats win ocean races. Sure, if you have a Beneteau First with every inch of her inspected, new rigging, the latest equipment plus all of the additional safety equipment that the race organizers require (at an additional cost of many thousands), plus a crew of six or eight experienced sailors, then yes, you have a good blue water boat.

As for run-of-the-mill Hunters, Beneteaus, Catalinas, Bavarias, etc., they may make a good blue water boat for you---but not for me.

your wrong.........as you know I own a FIRST.. and have traveled the waters from northern Alaska to Mexico, and often a few miles offshore which would qualify for "blue water" without all the extra racing gear, and all the extra crew, and without all the extra inspections..
My wife and I are both 59, we handle the boat just fine and last time comming down from the North West, the wife drove the jeep and I brought the boat down singlehanded,
So at 59 yrars old and single handing the FIRST 42 for a few thousand miles kinda blows your statement out of the water..
And over the next couple years, I'l be racing the Beneteau FIRST , single handed, in preps for the "SINGLEHANDED TRANSPAC"
And as for the production boats.........Its the same company, doing the same thing, that they have for the last 100 years.. the production boats are an offshoot of the race model........

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

I'l be racing the Beneteau FIRST , single handed, in preps for the "SINGLEHANDED TRANSPAC"

Way to go. That'll be fun!



Mark

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

your wrong.........as you know I own a FIRST.. and have traveled the waters from northern Alaska to Mexico, and often a few miles offshore which would qualify for "blue water" without all the extra racing gear, and all the extra crew, and without all the extra inspections..
My wife and I are both 59, we handle the boat just fine and last time comming down from the North West, the wife drove the jeep and I brought the boat down singlehanded,
So at 59 yrars old and single handing the FIRST 42 for a few thousand miles kinda blows your statement out of the water..
And over the next couple years, I'l be racing the Beneteau FIRST , single handed, in preps for the "SINGLEHANDED TRANSPAC"
And as for the production boats.........Its the same company, doing the same thing, that they have for the last 100 years.. the production boats are an offshoot of the race model........

Or you may be the exception that proves the rule. Did you buy the boat directly from Beneteau and do what you did with the standard "sail away" package?

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Or you may be the exception that proves the rule. Did you buy the boat directly from Beneteau and do what you did with the standard "sail away" package?

So I can confidently assume your boat is in original sail away package condition/equiped?

[Curmudgeon]

Pretty much the same as when I purchased, except for replacing what needed replacing (e.g. running rigging) and good annual maintenance.

Of course my boat, although small, was purpose built and equipped for blue water by her first owner.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Pretty much the same as when I purchased, except for replacing what needed replacing (e.g. running rigging) and good annual maintenance.

Of course my boat, although small, was purpose built and equipped for blue water by her first owner.

So, if you are acknowledging that your own "purpose built" boat needed further upgrades and preparation for blue water sailing how is that different from taking a Beneteau, Catalina, etc. and doing the same. Isn't it just maybe a matter of how much and even that is going to be at the discretion and judgement of the sailor. Seems to me almost any boat today can be made "blue water" capable. It's just a matter of how much you want to put into it and what you are comfortable with. The OP's question was "can" these boats be made blue water capable not are they ready for that when they leave the factory?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Doodles

"purpose built" boat needed further upgrades and preparation for blue water sailing how is that different from taking a Beneteau, Catalina, etc. and doing the same.

All Beneteaus destined for Moorings/Sunsail etc sail on their own bottoms from France accross the Atlantic - many out of season. They are just the basic run o the mill charter boats. Yet they can do the 3,000+nms.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

All Beneteaus destined for Moorings/Sunsail etc sail on their own bottoms from France accross the Atlantic - many out of season. They are just the basic run o the mill charter boats. Yet they can do the 3,000+nms.

So, is it fair to say that what you find on a Beneteau charter boat with Moorings/Sunsail is how they came from the factory and that the only thing added for the delivery across was maybe some personal safety equipment of the delivery crew?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Doodles

So, is it fair to say that what you find on a Beneteau charter boat with Moorings/Sunsail is how they came from the factory and that the only thing added for the delivery across was maybe some personal safety equipment of the delivery crew?

Exakkery.


Same as the boats delivered to the Pacific. They sail there.

When we came through the Panama canal one Leopard 42(?) was going from South Africa to Tonga... direct.... except for the stop in Panama.

Stock standard off the production line. No cruiser 'kit out'. Tables, benches etc all have cardboard stuck overthen so the crew can't scratch them.

And the crews that get most jobs are the ones that deliver the boat cleaner than they picked it up.




Mark

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Doodles

So, if you are acknowledging that your own "purpose built" boat needed further upgrades and preparation for blue water sailing how is that different from taking a Beneteau, Catalina, etc. and doing the same. Isn't it just maybe a matter of how much and even that is going to be at the discretion and judgement of the sailor. Seems to me almost any boat today can be made "blue water" capable. It's just a matter of how much you want to put into it and what you are comfortable with. The OP's question was "can" these boats be made blue water capable not are they ready for that when they leave the factory?

No, my boat required no further upgrades. Just maintenance. I had her out last week in 35 knots. No problem.

If you want to argue that your Chevrolet is as safe as my Mercedes, go right ahead. Heck, the Chevy can cruise just fine at 70 on the highway, has a radio, air conditioning and all the amenities. But it won't last nearly as long as a Mercedes, won't be worth nearly as much when you sell it and won't protect you nearly as well when someone crashes into you. Do millions of people get by with Chevrolets? Sure. But don't pretend that your nautical equivalent (Jeanneau, Bavaria, Beneteau,. Hunter, Catalina) is just as safe than a Morris or a Hallberg Rassy. It isn't. It was built to a price point and the design philosophy was BBSB--big beds sell boats-- not safety in force 8 or better.

[sailorboy1]

Some people just can not let go of their "my dog is bigger than your dog". They need to believe others have a piece of crap boat so they can feel good about theirs. The only thing that I don't really get is why a snob would feel the need to "win" this discusion so much?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

why a snob would feel the need to "win" this discusion so much?

Yeah. I don't slag other peoples boats.


Except cats, of course

Oh, thats a point. Why don't those same snobs slag catamarans that come off the same production lines as Beneteau and Jeneau?

Really they just get annoyed by Monohull production boats? As Americans would say: Go figure!

[Bash]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Yeah. I don't slag other peoples boats.

There you go: we should all write it a few times on the blackboard.

Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.
Don't slag other people's boats.

[bene505]

One place where the "car analogy" falls apart is with length.

One thing to consider is that you can buy a bigger production boat for the money. Longer boats ride better, leading to a more rested crew. And the bigger production boats seem heftier than their smaller sisters. Those are my current opinions based on very limited experience.

Regards,
Brad