Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Hey Curmudgeon,
I just looked at the picture of your boat on your profile. Nice lines. Very classic. Looks like a hard-chine wooden boat. Is it made of plywood? I have never heard of Sam Devlin. Is he a local guy in Boston? Did he build a lot of custom boats?

You're close. She's a stitch and glue boat (plywood and epoxy) built in the Pacific Northwest. She's a Lyle Hess knockoff, although she's a little lighter than his BCC and has those hard chines. Here are a couple of links:

Devlin Designing Boat Builders

Devlin Designing Boat Builders

[NormanMartin]

Don:
Agreed. After seeing what people arrive in and then cruise around the Caribbean in, pretty much any boat will do. Some look mighty "spartan."

I have seen your boat around the North East, I think. We aren't getting in much cruising these days, though.

Norman on Averisera in Boston

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Don:
Agreed. After seeing what people arrive in and then cruise around the Caribbean in, pretty much any boat will do. Some look mighty "spartan."

I have seen your boat around the North East, I think. We aren't getting in much cruising these days, though.

Norman on Averisera in Boston

I haven't gone to visit D & D in a month. Instead I've been sitting around reading werid threads and causing trouble. And of course ...... lusting at boats on Yatchworld (none that are on this topic just to be on the topic thread).

[Reality Check]

Problem with threads like this is the truth get all tangled up with the prejudices of the detractors who know they have unfounded prejudices but just for the heck of it continue to profess to those who already know better. Probable waste of bandwidth.

[Sailndive345]

Originally Posted by slap

The bends in the toerail between the bolts went from the shrouds to the bow - not what you would get if you simply attached a block to the toerail and overloaded it.

Considering the level of effort that went into upgrading the hardware on that boat, I'd be a little surprised if they shackled any blocks to the toerail.

I normally stay away from this type of topic as I am extremely happy with my "Chevy" after five years of almost exclusive off shore mileage - just wanted to add to the Bene racing discussion -

I witnessed the described type of (forward) toerail bending on one of the boats I raced on when a mainsail preventer was rigged and attached to the toerail forward of the shrouds. On the earlier (mast) point, unless they replaced the furling mast with a std one, even if they somehow attached a full main to it, the weight (aloft) difference between a furling and non-furling mast is significant enough to create a big disadvantage when racing.

Happy holidays!

Sailndive

[ibrgic]

Have to say that this looks to me a lot like mono vs. multi treds. You eider love it or hate it.

I understand both point of argument here, but interesting thing to me is that there is no one here that was disappointed by choosing production boats. Everyone that have it, love it and most others hate it.

Is there some jealousy going on there?

[Laidback]

Question :- Can Jeanneau, Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean-Crossing Boats?
Answer :- They must be good, they are already crossing oceans - in their thousands!

And I'm a fanatical multihuller

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Problem with threads like this is the truth get all tangled up with the prejudices of the detractors who know they have unfounded prejudices but just for the heck of it continue to profess to those who already know better. Probable waste of bandwidth.

Of course that cuts both ways. Defenders also have unfounded prejudices.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Of course that cuts both ways. Defenders also have unfounded prejudices.

Actually most of the Defenders on this thread are those with real time long duration knowledge and use of the subjects, while many of the Detractors have limited or no actual knowledge or are basing their prejudices on hear say or or unfounded/ incorrect reports by 2nd/ 3rd/ 125th sources who overheard a conversation they think was about so and so.... in a bar by the river.... an inland river. Even though the detractors know they have no basis they will continue just as it was pointed out this is similar to the mono vs multi discussions..... such is often the case with sailors around a bar or on line computer chat forum.

You can never find the truth with such a post unless you personally can separate the wheat from the chaff.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Actually most of the Defenders on this thread are those with real time long duration knowledge and use of the subjects, while many of the Detractors have limited or no actual knowledge or are basing their prejudices on hear say or or unfounded/ incorrect reports by 2nd/ 3rd/ 125th sources who overheard a conversation they think was about so and so.... in a bar by the river.... an inland river. Even though the detractors know they have no basis they will continue just as it was pointed out this is similar to the mono vs multi discussions..... such is often the case with sailors around a bar or on line computer chat forum.

You can never find the truth with such a post unless you personally can separate the wheat from the chaff.

My point is that owners often have the most difficulty separating the wheat from the chaff. Take a poll and most owners will have virtually nothing bad to say about the boats they own.

I personally take every opportunity to sail on every type/size/rig precisely so I have an understanding of what else is out there. Over the years, I have sailed on dozens of boats, monos and cats. Although I have no dog in this particular fight, I think you're assessment is a bit unfair.

[burgos]

What a read I must say.

[kb79]

Originally Posted by ibrgic

I understand both point of argument here, but interesting thing to me is that there is no one here that was disappointed by choosing production boats. Everyone that have it, love it and most others hate it.

good point.

[meyermm]

I understand both point of argument here, but interesting thing to me is that there is no one here that was disappointed by choosing production boats. Everyone that have it, love it and most others hate it.
Yes very good point another is how many that have owned these boats get rid of them and go back to an older style, build?? The Peterson that I owned was a great boat and lived up to their reputation in every way but my next boat will be a Jeanneau, Bavaria or Beneteau or similar simply because modern material, design etc. I am in the automotive business and love the new design, technology etc and working with it can see the benefits while many yearn for the old heavy chrome laden vehicles of the past. Never mentioning the much higher maintenance requirements and unreliability that came with them, time does play tricks with the memory.

[Curmudgeon]

So why are you buying a production boat to replace your Peterson instead of a Morris, Shannon, Wauquiez, Alubat or Hallberg Rassy? Or why not commission a custom design and have it built by a reputable yard?

The answer is, because you probably can't afford it. Please, don't make the argument that production boats exemplify the "new design, technology, etc." while the higher quality-- and higher cost-- alternatives are the "heavy and chrome laden" vestiges of the past.

There are lots of people cruising in production boats because there are alot of production boats. They're mass produced and mass marketed. They cost less when new, and they are relatively inexpensive when used, since they do not hold their value as well as a quality boat that is built to last.

So, to return to an automotive analogy, a Chevy is probably good enough for normal driving, but at 200 mph on the autobahn you'd really prefer a Mercedes, wouldn't you?

[Reality Check]

Anyone with knowledge of Production/ Product and Quality Control knows that a production item that has been in production for some time will be of better quality and will meet design goals FAR better than any One Off/ Knock Off build even by "skilled" craftsmen.

Just look at the Military Aerospace activities, the first production models are test plate that are known to have a high probability of needing modifications after real life test. Same with any one off design. It is only through a reiterative process of close quality controls that the superior techniques and sequences are developed. While most are minor due to the accuracy of todays design techniques, some are more major. Another major benefit is parts replaceable. One offs are often so unique you can't locate a similar part when you leave the area the one of a kind boat was built.

But I know I'm wasting my typing to those who still think wood is superior to todays modern materials and techniques.... knowing they will continue to hang on to professed beliefs in all things Old when most know that are off target and lack the ability to see it and never will. Only time and progress will correct the problem as it almost always does.