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Old 13-08-2022, 15:30   #631
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Here is a thought, based on personal experience.

Auto pilots cause rudder failure.

Moving right along I would suggest that many of the ARC boats are on their first ocean crossings. Some owners maybe not familiar with balancing the boat. Too much rudder is applied by the AP as it tries to keep the boat on track and as a result heavy loads are constantly being applied to the rudder. I don't know about the rest of you but I would rarely use more than 5 degrees of wheel when hand steering.

So - inexperienced skipper + poorly balanced boat + overworked a/p applying too much rudder = heavy loads on rudder = rudder failure.

Good point and I can see it happening. Add in that many APs on less expensive production boats are underpowered and the minimum you can get away with. Load up the boat with lots of cruising gear and an unbalanced boat will put big loads on the AP and anything attached to it.

I make it a habit of driving the boat for a while off AP just to get a feel for the loads and pressures on the helm and adjust. At a min it saves on power usage.
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:04   #632
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pirate Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Originally Posted by Rumrace View Post
I haven’t seen a container yet. I’d probably never boat there again. Dodged lots of beasts logs chunks of boats a dock in the harbour after a flood.

Yup people back up their deep rudders hit them then they break at sea and start brand rumours to deflect attention from poor captaining.
Beneteau looses a keel because some reckless captain should have been charged with manslaughter for not pulling the boat out after a serious grounding. Meanwhile nubs in old boats sling mud on Benni. Gets old.

Retractable Davits are on my list now that the fixed the water drain problem

I would definitely McGiver a rudder with a table or bed part. One on each side Use a stern dam at 90 to steer.

You can sail a canoe
It was not poor skippering... they were a delivery Skipper and crew who were kept in the dark by the owner and given a stupid non-stop route back to the UK..
The owner was charged with manslaughter through negligence on four counts but in the end walked away from the charge..
Read this and educate yourself on coding loopholes..

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:20   #633
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Originally Posted by Gard View Post
).If steering cables etc brake, the emergency tiller is often useless for steering, only keeping the boat stable while you wait for rescue or get the steering repaired.
I have real troubles identifying a real world casualty where the emergency tiller is the proper answer. 99.9% of steering system failures can be fixed by pushing the"auto" button on the autopilot. Granted, wheel mounted pilots do not have this solution.
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:58   #634
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I should clarify that by "steering system" I mean everything up to the rudder post. If the rudder or rudder post are gone, the tiller won't help anyway.
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Old 13-08-2022, 17:22   #635
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Different types of davits offer different compromises. Different combinations of davits and dinghys offer different compromises. Davits of any kind is a compromise in itself, as are all other means of storing a dinghy or not having one at all, as are different styles of yachts and sizes. It boils down to personal preference.

Me personally, there are a lot of things I dislike about davits. Springing the bough off a dock, going stern in, having a dinghy in the way of entering/exiting, the extra length (and sometime extra harbour fees), windage, boat balance, the worry of it suddenly heibg filled with water (or sliwly if the drain plugs), its looks, drilling into the boat, costs...

I also enjoy not having a dinghy on deck. I also enjoy the ease of which I can get the dinghy in snd out of the water with the engine, fuel tank, my groceries, etc - many days in a row. I enjoy not having to tow (noise, loss of speed, in the way at anchorages, getting the tow line to jam my rudder - which btw happened to me when I was a total noob). I enjoy not gaving it tied to the side at anchor or in a marina (knocking about, in the way, easy to steal, getting griny...). I find lifting the dinghy and engine on and off the mothership a PITA when I have to do it often.

If heading offshore for some time, then I prefer to have the dinghy on deck or in a locker.

Ofcourse I did not imply swapping between a wind vane and davits out at sea. The suggestion was more in terms of before leaving the Canary Islands to cross the atlantic, and then sgain when you get to a port on the other side of the pond a few weeks later. That much said, I think that most ARC type boats could enjoy both davits and a wind vane without having to swap back and forth.

As for making a strong enough construction to hold even a fairly heavy 10ft rib with a 20hp engine with console snd fuel, and also have the dinghy well seated so it doesn't move arround at sea (add some bits and bobs to the floats so it nests on the davits) - many have done it. However much I like a RIB though, something light and stowable is the better compromise for me.

I sold my Jeanneau Rush 111 (aka sun shine 36) as there were too many issues with it that would be impossible or too costly to rectify. I'm trying to test out as many boats as I can - trying to settle on what I want within my budget (still undecided). Some I have rented so to get to test them better. One thing is certain, after having tried one with davits - I'm never going back. Most of the time I enjoy both sailing and living aboard the floting condo type production cruisers - more than a long keeled heavy displacement dungeon of cruiser with kegged rudder and constrained living space both below and in the cockpit. My main concern however is all the bad stuff I have heard about failing steering on these production boats - hence my research into wind vanes as a backup.

Your points on the importance of balancing the boat is a very good one. I am convinced that it is more than lijely a significant contributing factor to many steering failures, and in the ARC in particular. I am under the assumption that ARC attracts less experienced sailors (like myself) - people who might not only be able to fully assess the condition of their steering system and rudder, nor be properly able to sail or steer the boat with the TLC it needs to endure the crossing - a combination that can easily spell disaster.
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bavaria, beneteau, jeanneau, monohull, ocean crossing, offshore

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