Originally Posted by Rumrace
Interesting stuff Gard. Would you say most of the rudder failures were caused by hits on the rudders docking.
Hell if I know what the main causes of rudder failure mid Atlantic is. I doubt there is a lot if docking going on though. I wish I knew - if you do, tell me.
As for hitting something, maybe a few instances here and there for ocean crossing
yacts (including the ARC) - but I doubt there are lot. According to some save the whale organisation though, some 20.000 whales are killed by ships every year, with numbers increasing every year due to less commercial
whaling (1.000/yr) and more shipping
- so there surely must ve atleast some risk for cruisers?. The probability supposedly increase substantially at speeds over 14 knots, and blue or green anti fowel paint
is invisible to whales while red is visible, and they can hear your depth sounder
. Experts disagree wether it is safer to announce your presence (red fowel paint
and sounder on, do the opposite). Last instance I heard of, the boat used red anti fowel paint - which is kess common than other colors... As for containers, after having read wuite a bit, I have come to the conclusion that it is a real thing, but that hitting them is very rare.
I've been unable to find good info. My guess is that many boats (including in the ARC) experience steering failure due to underengineered design, lack of service
, material fatigue/rot/rust, etc or use of incorrect replacement bearings, or the likes.
I rented a bavaria
46 cruiser three years ago. Some 25 nm off shore I noticed a banging sound coming from the rudder on the crest of every wave. Upon closer inspection
I found that most of the screws that prevents the top rudder bearing from unscrewing itself had snapped in two. Every 15 minutes I would have to tighten the bearing. If I had lacked the large wrench, I'm confident I would have lost
the rudder. After speaking with the owner, he told me he had experienced the bearing becoming loose in rough seas, but had just tightened it at the beginning of the season and thought that all was well (he should have mentioned it, don't you think?). With two children
aboard and my gf (inexperienced), I was effectively single
handling the boat - and I vecame quite upse when I learned the truth - would you have?
With also having experienced three AP failures on three different boats, plus a complete electrical
failure in another, I am on the cautious side and very interested in learning
more about wind
vanes as a safety
measure. There has been some useful input given that I will explore further (thanks).
Something has bothered me though, and I need to comment....
Regarding some person's comments regarding the idiocy of the suggestion of detachable davits
vanes (spitballing for anyone who can't have both), I find the way such replies are put together - as not only very unconstructive, but also quite revealing of what type of social nimb-wit we are all dealing with.
Anyhow, a quick google
image search and one will find yacts with both swim platforms, side mounted wind vanes, davits
and more - permanently installed. To those that still can't have both mounted at the same time - should you want both, there are many ok davit concepts that that can be detached and stored somewhere (be creative), or swung to the side, etc. I'm sure detatching a wind vane
and finding a way to store it isn't a major engineering achievement either...
This much said. Any storage
solution of a dinghy
is a compromise. Personally I believe that having the dinghy
in davits in-shore is the better tradeoff, and the dinghy on deck
(or even better, deflated and packed away), is the better tradeoff on a three week ocean crossing
. I don't see myself doing dayly trips in my dinghy mid atlantic anyways, nore do I see myself turnung to a wind vane
inshore if I have an AP.
In shore, an AP surely must be better than a wind vane, and vice versa? So, is it really such a terrible idea (if your transom can't have both at the same time) - to pack away your detachable davits and dinghy and put up a wind vane when crossing the atlantic, and then swap arround once you are across? I'm just spitballing here - I'm no expert. But to me it doesn't sound completely bonkers.
Myself, I do think I'd find a way on just about any modern boat to install both the wind vane and some sort of capable davits permanently installed. If not, I think I'd find a way to swap arround without too much trouble.
I must however repeat that I have never done a major crossing. So, if the person who mocks my ideas himself has vast experience in various long ocean crossings - with and without a wind vane, with different boat designs, and so forth - I will surely listen. My guess though is that the person has less knowledge, wits and expertise than he thinks or want others to believe - probably less than most arm chair cruisers who inow how to read, listen, and who is proficient in both critical and abstract thinking.
Anyhow, I don't see the ARC as the gold standard of neither best sailors nor best practice - though much can be learn and deduced, and I often find myself using examples from the ARC to argue some case. In fact, I believe a great number of participants are first timers who join the ARC for exactly that reason - safety
in numbers, consultants, checks, etc.
It would not be unreasonable to think that some of these ARC-evangelists gobble up everything they get in their information package, the ARC forums
(with some blind leading other blind, or self deckeared experts convincing others of their tremendous wisdom the don't have) - gobble it up as the complete and only truth, and then reverberating the gospel religiously.
I read a lot of books
- some written by some of the most reknown sailors - all who paint very different pictures
than the info floating around in the ARC fleet (including those that pertain to APs, rudders and wind vanes). I have several close relations that have a ton of experience who does as well. Which makes me extremely sceptical when a self proclaimed i" know it all" without serious credentials says that no one uses wind vanes anymore and that APs is the only way to go - it just sounds a bit bombastic, narrow minded... and utterly false.
I don't proclaim to know much, nor to have a ton of first hand experience - I'm firts and foremost here to learn, not to lecture. I've been sailing for many years, but nothing serious - which is why I might raise dumb questions or come up with dumb suggestions - I am a novice
and don't proclaim to be anything else. What I don't do is suggest anything and paint it as first hand expert advice
- because people's lives, well being, finances, etc could be at stake.
I don't take well to obtuse social defects that get off on running their lip on a keyboard - people whom the rest of us enjoy most when they are mid atlantic with no internet
and thousands of miles from any hunan being. I just felt like a kick in that person's nats was in order.