Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

[sailorboy1]

these threads never really change

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

these threads never really change

Where is the “like” button when you need it?

So yeah. Armchair sailors who think everything needs to be perfect before pointing the bow out to sea.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

these threads never really change

Maybe i will get a jump on things and start a new thread so everyone can have their say again.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by wingssail

To Gard: Worry less about the brand than the condition of the vessel, and to reduce chances of an issue you need to inspect and maintain all critical systems and components an any boat.



Many people still use windvanes. We do. And we see them on many boats, and by the state of the installation, obviously frequently used.

Emergency rudders capable of steering a 45' can be designed to be easily installable.




Self steering rudders are usually too small to be effective, and may need extra equipment to operate as a rudder at all. Check this out before depending on one.

Emergency tillers are usually short and difficult to use. Think ahead of time how you could use lines to winches to control it.

To Gard, be careful that you don't let un-warranted fears rule your life.

The ARC stars over the last ten years show the trend. Few are fewer are using windvanes. Crossing an ocean is no issue to modern APs.

Walk around my marina you might see one old mounting brackets for a wind vane

“ many people still use windvanes “ nope not at all.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The ARC stars over the last ten years show the trend. Few are fewer are using windvanes. Crossing an ocean is no issue to modern APs.

Walk around my marina you might see one old mounting brackets for a wind vane

“ many people still use windvanes “ nope not at all.

They tend to be more popular on smaller boats, ARC boats tend more to the 'bells and whistles' owners..
The KISS principle is more popular <37ft.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The ARC stars over the last ten years show the trend. Few are fewer are using windvanes. Crossing an ocean is no issue to modern APs.

Walk around my marina you might see one old mounting brackets for a wind vane

“ many people still use windvanes “ nope not at all.

Well Goboatingnow, you're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?

I've circumnavigated and seen the boats that are out there. And now I sit in Mexico at the jumping off point for Pacific crossing (and beyond). I've seen a lot of boats still using wind vanes.

I am sure you are right about the ARC boats. Mostly newer, bigger, boats with enough owners who have plenty of money to register in the ARC. I saw the same thing in Mauritius when the world ARC arrived there in 2011. But the ARC is not the entire world of cruising.

The biggest reason people don't install windvanes is that they all feel the need to install davits on the stern. Plus using a windvane requires one to learn something, not so much required for autopilots.

[poopship]

guess I better add hydrovane to boat upgrades.. redundancies are good.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No one is using windvanes , check the ARC stats

Bring a spare AP arm. That’s what we did. Way cheaper then a wind vane

AP works flawlessly on both crossings we hardly touched the wheel.

aPs with modern rate gyros are way better at steering then wind vanes.

A bold statement based it would seem on a single event - the ARC.

I'll see your ARC and raise you a Puerto Lucia, Ecuador.
80% of the boats that passed through there in April/June this year had windvanes.
All had come down from Panama, a majority had crossed the Atlantic.
Therefore 80% of all yachts have windvanes. QED

Hydrovanes seem to be the vane of choice these days. I only see Monitors on older north american yachts and haven't seen an Aires in years.

[ChrisJHC]

I did a 1500 nm passage last year that would have been 80% on the Hydrovane.
It was great!

[crankysailor]

I am positive I can give you the best advice you will ever get on this topic hands down. The kind of advice that will earn me a beer if you meet me 10 years after following it..

Take the budget you think you have, halve it and then buy the boat with the best condition you can find for that price. Any boat. Then start cruising. You will then be able to answer this question by yourself, for yourself.

[Rumrace]

Just south of Baneras Bay Mexico we came across a cafe and mother. The calf was huge. We had come dangerously close had I continued I would have hit the calf. Mums eye locked right on to us. I’d shut everything down and we just sat in absolute quiet.
There were reports back at Puerto Vallarta Marina about a male bumping boats. Apparently they should beheading north or already be in Alaska. He wasn’t attacking boats. Just trying to scrape off warm water barnacles and was Hangry.

Strange topic for a Benni Bash.

[Joli]

This guy still uses a hydrovane, at least it was there last time I saw his boat.

https://johnkretschmersailing.com/

[sck5]

I crossed the atlantic on a boat with a hydrovane - It was absolutely great!

One of the big plusses of windvanes is that they dont run down your battery. Maybe not an issue for large boats but on long passages where fuel conservation is important they are the way to go

[Gard]

Newer APs might be tremendously better at steering and more reliable than a decade ago - I wouldn't know. You can ofcourse install a backup AP...

"Everyone in ARC is using AP only and no windvane". Now, pointing towards ARC to prove the point of AP being all you need and wind vanes being passe?

The following is abbreviated from an article found on Kraken Yachts:

Some rudder failures in the ARC


1998 Harlequin, Dehler 41, damaged rudder stock, yacht abandoned

2001 Heya, EC 37, lost rudder

2002 F2, Hunter Legend 450, broke rudder stock

2006 Arnolf, Bavaria 350, broke rudder stock

2006 YNot, Contest 48 lost rudder

2009 Auliana II, JV53, lost rudder, yacht abandoned

2012 Modus Vivendi, Motiva 49 lost rudder

2016 Endorphine II, Bavaria 47, rudder shaft split

2016 Lady Nor, More 55, rudder broke off

2007 Zouk, Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 43, lost rudder, boat abandoned

2010 Elethea, Beneteau First 38, rudder blade came off, boat abandoned

2011 Beneteau Oceanis 45 rudder failure, boat sank

2014 Be Good Too, brand new Alpha 42 catamaran suffered double rudder failure 300 miles off US East Coast. Crew airlifted off. Upturned hull washed up on Scottish island in 2017.

2015 Egret, Sweden Yachts 390, rudder blade snapped off mid-Atlantic

2015 Scarlet Oyster, Oyster 48, rudder stock snapped off in Mediterranean

2017 Dove II, Hanse 52, rudder disintegrated 400 miles east of Barbados. Family of four and one crew member rescued by another yacht.

2018 Hilma, Jeanneau 45, lost rudder

2019 Beneteau First 40 hit a buoy off Cowes, broke off rudder and sank in the Solent. Three crew rescued by lifeboat.

The list is incomplete, there are others, even last year.

According to ARC weather expert Chris Tibbs: ‘Most years during the ARC there are reports of rudder failures. They include rudders breaking away, the shaft bending or breaking, bearings that seize or break away after hitting an object in the water. The shaft can be bent so that the helm is locked in a fixed position.’

Now, there are about 250 boats each year or there abouts if I remember correctly? With steering failures of approximately 1% crossing the atlantic, making the case for AP over a self steering system seems a bit daft if you ask me.

An AP is a wonderful thing, two is better - few will argue this. But if you lose your rudder or have an electrical problem (also a very real thing), your AP is pretty useless.

Now, in such event, having a wind vane could save your boat or someone's life.

Under some conditions it might be difficult to keep you on the course you want to go, but maybe with a reef ir three? Maybe it can keep you on different course, but a safe and comfortable one - until you can jury rig something better or be rescued?

So, if "no one uses a self steering system anymore" - not even one that can be deployed in seconds when things go pear shaped, maybe they ought to reconscider rather go about bashing those that do?

[Bowdrie]

^That's a very interesting list of boats that suffered rudder failure.
I couldn't find any Hinckley/Morris/Pacific Seacraft/Swan/Island Packet, or even any old Alajuela or Tiawan built boats on the list.
Perhaps the designers/builders of those boat knew a thing or three about proper rudder and steering systems.