Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by henkmeuzelaar

FWIW:

Two Beneteau First 40's ("Two True" and "Wicked", I believe) just finished 1st and 2nd as overall winners (Tattersall Cup) of the Sydney-to-Hobart ocean race.

Over the past decade Beneteaus slowly have become the dominant brand in this extremely demanding ocean race. This year, about 1 in 10 of the 100 or so participating yachts was a Beneteau (with 8 custom-built Farrs as the next most populous brand) and all finished the race.

Have fun!

Flying Dutchman

I saw the unveiling of the First 40 in Annapolis a few months ago. I think I'd call its racer/cruiser designation a stretch. It's a racer with something less than purely spartan accomodations.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by MC01

This is interesting. I wonder if the idea of some racers would be to buy an "inexpensive" well performing boat, race it hard a certain number of times, and then sell it when appropriate, as opposed to someone who is looking to hang on to a boat long term and cruise extensively.

For me, I'm open minded about this issue, but there is another thread active here discussing if heavy weather influenced people's decision on what boat they decided to go with, and it's interesting the different direction that thread has taken compared to this one. There's a big difference in the original question that was asked, but many of the issues/concerns are related.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-34603.html

Yes, and here is another thread that might influence one's choice of a fin keel vs a full keel.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-34782.html

[Sailndive345]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Yes, and here is another thread that might influence one's choice of a fin keel vs a full keel.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-34782.html

I don't think you are being fair... The J that got in trouble did so because of very poor decisions made on taking chances; navigating a narrow, dangerous pass during the night under adverse weather conditions. I have managed to run aground (hate to admit to it ) on fin and full keel boats numerous times and, for me, it has been much harder a get out the full keel every time.

Furthermore, I doubt one can consider that J boats fin keel as typical as far as what we have been talking about.

Sailndive

[Randyonr3]

Sneuman
Comfort of cruising is all in the eye of the person using the boat and what he or she seams needed... When I got out of the service back many years ago, I spent over a year "cruising" around the US on a motorcycle with a sleeping bag tyed to the back..
It wasnt a motorhome, by any standards, but it did the job as far as I was concerned..
And Again CurMudgeon,
If you looked at the attachment point of the keel, you'll see that the type of keel it would have been was a Blade with a bulb, and not a cruising fin.. there is a big difference between keels, even in the fins, so you cant classify all fins together..
Mine, for example, is 12 feet long, almost 7 feet tall, and is about 2 feet wide where it bolts to the bottom of the boat, with by the way, 16 - 3/4 inch bolts and weighs in around 8 thousand pounds.. and the area where its bolted on the boat has a reinforsed area about 4 feet wide and measures "200+" mm thick... thats around 8 inches in the floor of solid fiberglass....
So you see, some fins are alittle tougher than others so you cant just say fin or full.

[Curmudgeon]

As someone noted in that thread, **** happens. You have run aground, so have I. A full keeler may be harder to get off, but she's always going to stay in one piece. A fin keeler probably will too, but not always.

What would have happened to those guys if they had run aground somewhere in the Pacific, with no lifeboats or rescue helicopters handy?

[Sailndive345]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

As someone noted in that thread, **** happens. You have run aground, so have I. A full keeler may be harder to get off, but she's always going to stay in one piece. A fin keeler probably will too, but not always.

What would have happened to those guys if they had run aground somewhere in the Pacific, with no lifeboats or rescue helicopters handy?

I think I have run out of time and patience... Here is one of your full keeled boats, this one didn't make it....

YouTube - Shipwreck yacht. www.yatebarlovento.cl

If you are in the Pacific and place your full keeled boat high and dry on a remote coral reef, what difference does it make if you have one or the other? You are dead meat either way...

Over & out

Sailndive

[Curmudgeon]

Well sure, any boat can wreck on a reef or a lee shore. We're talking about relative safety here, nothing is absolute.

[CharlieCobra]

Originally Posted by Factor

Close - its just unbelievable. And against all laws of physics

Ok, let me clarify. I wasn't aboard for that 250 nm a day trip. I was told this story by a PO that had her for 20 years before I got her. The ONLY reason I found this to be the slightest bit plausible is the results of two shorter trips of my own in gale conditions. The first was in winds that went from 30 knots to 62 knots by the time the trip was over. While sailing a broad reach with the rail in the water, we made the trip from Elliot Bay to Port Townsend in 8 hours. That's 80 nm according to the GPS tracks. Another trip with 30-35 on the beam and beam seas, we made 40 nm in four hours, surfing the whole way. Now in normal conditions, the best I've seen is 7.5 knots without surfing and under power I've seen 7.5 knots with the fantail buried and the old girl climbing her bow wave. Granted, it took all 50 HP from the old Perkins to do that.

Was she surfing for that whole trip? Likely... Would I care to do that for any length of time? Hell no... After eight hours of it I was toast at the helm. Way too much work. Draw your own conclusions. All I know is what I've seen personally and I wasn't there for that 500 nm run...

[CharlieCobra]

As far as keels go, I think a full keel might tolerate bouncing (on something softer than coral) a bit longer than a fin keel. A friend of mine got caught on a sandbar for several hours in rough seas, bouncing up and down on a sandbar. While it did do some damage to the keel structure, the boat survived and was repaired. I can hardly imagine what would've happened on coral...

[MC01]

. . . and can one of yer full keelers do this?

[CharlieCobra]

That is something I'd want to avoid I'm thinking....

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Sneuman
Comfort of cruising is all in the eye of the person using the boat and what he or she seams needed... When I got out of the service back many years ago, I spent over a year "cruising" around the US on a motorcycle with a sleeping bag tyed to the back..
It wasnt a motorhome, by any standards, but it did the job as far as I was concerned..

Take a close look. I think the vast majority of us wouldn't call this a comfortable passagemaker:

Sailing Maryland: White Lightening!

[Randyonr3]

Curm
you cant use relitive safety when you have an open area of subjects.. Who knows, but My fin keel might withstand more punishment on a reef than your full keel, but Im not going to go out and try it to prove a point..
Even though I've got 8 thousand in pig iron hanging off the bottom, its not designed to use as a ram on a reef.
If you are using your full keel as a safety feature, your dealing with a false sence of security.....

[Randyonr3]

Sneuman
Thats exactly my point, the person thas uses it as a cruiser might think differently.. The Harley I went cruising the US with was of 1939 vintage and had a ridgid frame, not exactly the comfort of something to cruise with but for me, I loved it.
I saw a video once of some people cruising that ran across a guy in a dug-out canoe with an outrigger.. he was in panama when they first saw him.. a couple months later they ran across him again, in the south pacific..
The Racer/Cruiser you speak of may not fit the needs of you and I but I'll bet there is someone out there saving their coins to buy the boat..

[Zniggy]

I've crossed the atlantic with my Jeanneau Sun Magic 44. Next year I'm sailing back (north atlantic) from the US to Scandinavia. But older (up to '96) Jeanneau's and Beneteau are built much stronger, this was before the charter industry could dictate how they should build and design their boats.