can insurance companies endanger lives?

[the dude abides]

You did read about how I was getting ignored and was trying to get their attention. You think I should act politely and be ignored. I tried that and then one gets frustrated. I would posit they made a mistake of non disclosure and omissions. If they had at least informed me what was in the survey then they are making me responsible for all the works. Then it is up to me to complete the works and make sure that they are satisfactory to qualify for full insurance. I am in a remote place overseas. I am not complaining about monetary or adjustment or deductions etc. it is knowledge of the scope of works - and I was asking for that repeatedly. Alas this was my first time dealing with insurance. I have lived in Germany and Denmark so rung sailing friends from there and they were very surprised at this as Pantaenius have a solid reputation in both these countries from my feedback.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by the dude abides

You did read about how I was getting ignored and was trying to get their attention. You think I should act politely and be ignored. I tried that and then one gets frustrated. I would posit they made a mistake of non disclosure and omissions. If they had at least informed me what was in the survey then they are making me responsible for all the works. Then it is up to me to complete the works and make sure that they are satisfactory to qualify for full insurance. I am in a remote place overseas. I am not complaining about monetary or adjustment or deductions etc. it is knowledge of the scope of works - and I was asking for that repeatedly. Alas this was my first time dealing with insurance. I have lived in Germany and Denmark so rung sailing friends from there and they were very surprised at this as Pantaenius have a solid reputation in both these countries from my feedback.

If you knew it was dangerous, why didn't you take the boat out anyway?

Getting mad at them doesn't change their responsibility.

[the dude abides]

They knew it was dangerous, not me. Thats the whole point. They did not share that information. Martin Baum head of Pantaenius publicly states that they are no 1 for blue water cruisers as they have experts and networks in all parts of the world to give you advice when you need it. I was asking repeatedly and just ignored. My predicament may be just regional to Australia. I do not know if in other countries this happens. You have a lot of posts valhala360. maybe have seen a lot of similar posts. Is there an insurance section here on cruisers forum for scenarios like mine or where people discuss the best insurance in certain regions or perhaps the nuances of their insurance agreements? One lesson from lightning and insurance that is global is do not be in a rush to get paid out, as soon as you leave the marina something else is going to break that you did not foresee.

[letsgetsailing3]

It appears that you might be misunderstanding the role of an insurance company. The insurance company pays for damages to your boat. It's up to them only to get an assessment of damages.

Different professionals have different roles. It's up to you to align interests, and look out for your own.

You can't expect them to pay for a general surveyor for your boat. If you want that, you should hire that person directly. Probably not a bad idea, by the way.

Generally speaking, insurance companies are in the business of making money, not looking out for you. If, occasionally, they do look out for you, take it as good fortune.

You're the person looking out for you.

[goboatingnow]

I am insured by Pantenious, and got hit by three lightning strikes. ( within 3 mins )

They appointed a surveyor to review my claim.

Ultimately it’s up to me to assure them my boat was “ insurable “ no insurance company will verify your boat. Thats not their role. That’s your role

In my case I got and paid for a professional rigging survey. The insurers did not require such a survey.

Equally they just needed the boat dived to verify no major underwater structural damages

The renewal contained no additional premium following my claim which Pantenious settled in full and quickly.

I am entirely satisfied with them and renewed this year again

Insurers ensure on the basis of what you tell them. It’s up to you to be sure of what you are saying. It you tell them incorrect facts you are not insured.

Again simply because a insurers issues a policy does not mean your boat is safe

[the dude abides]

There was a surveyor. he did a good job and recommended two other specialists to assess the damage to my yacht. This did not happen so they did not do a proper assessment of my damages which as you state is a duty

[the dude abides]

you appear to be in Greece. As i said my friends in Europe state that Pantaenius have a good reputation there. We are dealing with different regions of the world. I am happy are you satisfied. Sounds like they do a good job.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by the dude abides

you appear to be in Greece. As i said my friends in Europe state that Pantaenius have a good reputation there. We are dealing with different regions of the world. I am happy are you satisfied. Sounds like they do a good job.

The point is ultimately insurers accept your statement as to the condition of the boat.

When a claim then occurs, they will appoint their surveyor. His role is to ascertain that you reported facts and equally that the boat was factually in the state you said it was.

So say you state the rig is ok after the strike ( as I did ) and the insurers accept that. If the rig then falls down the insurers will seek to verify the veracity of your statements. If they find otherwise they will adjust or deny aspects of the claim.

This is how it works worldwide and has nothing specific re Pantenious

What’s it’s definitely not, is that the insurers tell you your boat is safe !!

[pete c]

You would think there'd be regulations that say the boat owner has the right to all info collected regarding his boat. How else is he to know that the insurance company isn't skimping on repairs.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by pete c

You would think there'd be regulations that say the boat owner has the right to all info collected regarding his boat. How else is he to know that the insurance company isn't skimping on repairs.

He can hire his own professionals, if he thinks he needs to.

Verifying work done on his boat is the owner's job, isn't it?

[Rumrace]

Sue everyone involved within the next 2 years sooner the better. Name everyone and everyone’s company. The bottom feeders will sort it out and never go to court. Easy stuff.
Pretty easy to get professional testimony not heard when it has no merit. The surveyor will not have enough asset to seize or net worth but the insurance company knows that and settles. They same crew will be out to screw the next claim. 4 hours night courses at the local high school are handy in life but they get tossed out of court as unnecessary laymen rhetoric. It’s a favourite area in evidence “ expert evidence” the qualifications to make the claim and the credible need for the court to hear it. There are 3 hurdles to jump and the judge will not interfere

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Sue everyone involved within the next 2 years sooner the better. Name everyone and everyone’s company. The bottom feeders will sort it out and never go to court. Easy stuff.
Pretty easy to get professional testimony not heard when it has no merit. The surveyor will not have enough asset to seize or net worth but the insurance company knows that and settles. They same crew will be out to screw the next claim. 4 hours night courses at the local high school are handy in life but they get tossed out of court as unnecessary laymen rhetoric. It’s a favourite area in evidence “ expert evidence” the qualifications to make the claim and the credible need for the court to hear it. There are 3 hurdles to jump and the judge will not interfere

No wonder nobody can afford decent insurance anymore. The insurance companies are just middle men. The folks getting robbed are the insured.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pete c

You would think there'd be regulations that say the boat owner has the right to all info collected regarding his boat. How else is he to know that the insurance company isn't skimping on repairs.

Insurance companies don’t do repairs. You do and you agree in advance with your insurers. The onus on the repair is for you to assure yourself you are happy.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

No wonder nobody can afford decent insurance anymore. The insurance companies are just middle men. The folks getting robbed are the insured.

I do not agree. My Pantenious insurance has been excellent and worth every penny. In the end they offers me a cash settlement as I asked or. I could not be more pleased. In addition my renewal did not increase either.

By the way, as I asked then in advance , Pantenious stated I would not get a copy of their surveyors report unless that report differed to my course of action. In the end they acknowledged their surveyor agreed in full with my approach and they paid 100%

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I do not agree. My Pantenious insurance has been excellent and worth every penny. In the end they offers me a cash settlement as I asked or. I could not be more pleased. In addition my renewal did not increase either.

By the way, as I asked then in advance , Pantenious stated I would not get a copy of their surveyors report unless that report differed to my course of action. In the end they acknowledged their surveyor agreed in full with my approach and they paid 100%

I don't know what you're disagreeing with.

My point isnt' that you can't have a good experience with an insurance company. It's that when people frivolously sue insurance companies "just bacause", they aren't hurting the insurance companies, they're just raising the cost of insurance for others.

The point is that there is no "man". The man is just other people.