Cal 29 always turns to port

[Adelie]

Differential pressure from the propwash on the rudder. The prop is angled down so the wash is asymetrical. If the prop were set orthogonal then it would be less of an issue.

[Sand crab]

I went sailing on the boat yesterday. It may be a Cal 2-29 because that was what the mainsail has printed on it but I know that doesn't mean anything.

We had light winds maybe up to 5 and then it dropped and glassed over. It does sail straight and you can take your hands off the wheel and it seems pretty balanced just like others have said. Motoring is another story. My friend, the new owner, pulled out (forward) of his new slip for the first time
without incident. He wanted to try backing in at the end of the day and that was a disaster. It steers terribly in reverse and really wants to go to port but we are backing in on the starboard side. I had to take over and got it into the slip barely. Luckily no one saw us because it was really bad. The main problem is he is close to the end so it is difficult to get proper steerage when shifting into reverse with it turning to port. It is a huge marina with hundreds of boats with a wide thoroughfare with about 5 individual lanes leading to long lines of slips. We have decided to just reverse out there in the thoroughfare and back all the way down and into his slip from now on. This way we have plenty of room to obtain steerage and once it is going into reverse it is manageable. Also he will be backing in on the port side and the boat likes that!
Is his problem a bent propeller? Do we mean one of the blades is bent or it is somehow skewed? I reckon if the shaft was bent then there would be a good vibration and it's hard to tell with the small diesel because it might be contributing a fair amount too.
Thanks again.

[evm1024]

I always thought that the cruising version the Cruising Cal 2-29 came with the inboard diesel and wheel steering. I have been able to start the single cylinder Farymann diesel by hand. Once to try it out. It was tough.

My boat had a lt blue hull.

So with sailing straight I think that you have a bent prop or strut. How is the performance in forward under engine power? If it is less that what you expect then that would mean less thrust from the prop.

[Sand crab]

It's not my boat but it has a 9 year old Beta engine which runs well. My friend is Russian and English is not his first language but I think it's a Cal 2-29 because it has the wheel steering. The hours, oil, and temp alarms do not function and neither does the knotmeter. There is no GPS or chartplotter but we did 30 nautical miles in about 5 1/2 hours so it seems like it cruises ok. Did your Cal just turn to port when you took your hands off the wheeel. And did it do the same in reverse. The reverse part is the most unnerving because it's almost unmanageable in close quarters.

[LByers]

Don't know if it's true on your boat but I worked on a Caliber 40 one time that had the same issue. I discovered through research and talking with Caliber that the rudder was offset to allow removal of the prop shaft. I think if you had a bent prop or shaft that you'd feel at least some shudder. Good luck.

[LByers]

I should have said too that it was only a problem when motoring and sailed beautifully.

[DougR]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Differential pressure from the propwash on the rudder. The prop is angled down so the wash is asymetrical. If the prop were set orthogonal then it would be less of an issue.

This is the issue......unequal prop wash pressure on the rudder. Almost all boats have it to greater or lesser degrees, depending on the lateral location of the prop to the rudder, the fore and aft relationship of the prop and rudder, the shaft angle and the balance of the blade itself.

My Cal 39 pulls to port somewhat when underway forward and prop walks hard to stb in reverse, because of hull shape and prop location, but under sail it balances fairly well on either tack.
Years ago I had a friend in S. Calif. who owned an Islander 30 that was truely tiring to motor long distances because it pulled so hard to port. If you let go of the wheel while motoring at cruising speed you were almost afraid to grab it again because it was spinning so fast it would break your fingers!

DougR

[anacapaisland42]

A trim tab on the rudder might solve your problems inexpensively
Bill

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I helped my friend move his newly acquired Cal 29 about 30 miles yesterday. We motored all the way because it was light and on the nose (of course) and the dang thing really wants to go left. The wheel would just start turning when you took your hands off it. The autopilot could just about keep up but it would always creep over to port. There was no survey or haulout done but the bottom looks pretty clean. I think it has Faryman 12 diesel. Any idea what this could be? Propwalk maybe?

We might go sailing today and see how it does without the motor but it is predicted to be light.

[evm1024]

I thought that you were saying that there was a lot of pressure on the wheel that you had to "fight" to keep the boat going straight under power.

As I recall with mine If you let go of the wheel and did not lock the wheel it would turn. But with the wheel locked it went straight.

Because of the rudder design in reverse it takes only a little angle to get a lot of force on the wheel. Normally to back my boat into the slip I would idle down and turn around facing aft with the wheel behind me. Then using only a little turn of the wheel I could steer the boat through a 45 degree right turn, 45 degree left turn, 50' straight, 75 degree right (to crab the current), 75 degree left and then about 40' straight to my tie up.

Perhaps there is no problem if there is not a "big" force on the wheel under power and only a turning when you let go of the wheel.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

It definitely doesn't back straight in reverse. Yesterday was my first time with this boat and we are leaving the slip in the dark. I'm driving because I have more experience than the new owner and I had a hell of a time backing out of the slip. Luckily there were no cameras because I'm sure it would be on the web by now.
We stopped before the new marina and I practiced the maneuvers and then actually backed into that slip only somewhat cockeyed.

I'll have to check but it seems the stern wants to turn to port which makes since since the bow wants to do that too. The new slip is on the starboard side so the port thing sure makes it interesting.
We'll do what we can to check things out but it is in 48 degree water so I'm not diving in there.
Thanks again.

My sweethearts boat is a Cal 2-29 1974, Faryman 1cyl
She sails straight, prop walk to port (right hand turning prop), and can be backed easily once the rearward motion is fast enough.

Possibly a loose rudder bearing or if wheel steering, out of adjustment steering cables. Tightened or replace them. They do stretch over time.
Edson sells a replacement kit.

See if your wheel brake can steady it.
Wheel steering is what they came with, but it's possible to have a tiller.
I don't think you can install those rudders backward due to shaping.
Cheers,
SV Cloud Duster

[degouwb]

What happens when you slide it in nuetral??

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Differential pressure from the propwash on the rudder. The prop is angled down so the wash is asymetrical. If the prop were set orthogonal then it would be less of an issue.

I think it’s differential pressure on the rudder as well.
However I don’t think it’s due to prop angle, I think it’s the corkscrew rotation of the water coming off of the prop. The prop shaft angle on my IP is almost level.
My Island Packet does this as well. In the manual it states it’s normal and recommends for extended motoring to tighten down the rudder lock.
It’s normal, it’s aggravated by a balanced rudder, and I don’t think it can be or is worth fixing, if it doesn’t do this sailing, my IP doesn’t.
You could fix it with a trim tab, but it would pull the other way when sailing, so you would need a cockpit adjustable trim tab, and that is way more complexity than I would want.

Prop angle would be P factor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor

[iyamwhatiyam]

Our Catalina 30 has the same prop walk characteristic under power, (natch). One can assume that this is a hydrodynamic property that all similar boats are subject to. Therefore I think I can safely point to the IC30A http://www.catalina30.com publication for practical advice submitted by C-30 owners. The Collection can be found at Tech-Talk Manual
Section 24 "Propellers and Power Train" has an article "A cure for prop wash" at 24-16. The gist of which is "attaching a 4" x 4" foil on the port side of the rudder".
The open question is "Does the foil affect the helm under sail?". There is a good diagram, but for us pilots, it's just the same as a fixed trim tab on a rudder. An imaginary line extending the prop shaft goes right through the center of the 4" x 4" trim tab.

[grae]

I've been sailing my Cal '72 2-29 for about 10 years now - usually if you have a wheel and a sink in the head area, it's a 2-29 rather than a 29.
I do get a fair bit of prop walk in reverse, something I put down to the prop, I swapped out the little sailer 6pitch two blade for a 8 pitch 3 blade (both 12") because I have a lot of current to deal with at times and the smaller one just couldn't cope - tbh I think it's now a little over propped but that's just trial and error now.

All that being said, I don't have much of an issue with walk when going forward under power unless she's unbalanced with too many people on one side for example but otherwise she tracks very well.

[iyamwhatiyam]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You could fix it with a trim tab, but it would pull the other way when sailing, so you would need a cockpit adjustable trim tab, and that is way more complexity than I would want.

Prop angle would be P factor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor

So that answers the "what effect under sail" question. Thanks a64pilot!