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Old 17-11-2019, 00:51   #16
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

So far i am into fisher and steel like motiva and feltz.

I dont know nothing about moody.

Are they Good? I mean are they up to travel to greenland?
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Old 17-11-2019, 01:02   #17
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

After some Shorts research i Think moodys are not up to the greenland task...starting with the large Windows...

I rhink i will stick to Metal or fisher..
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Old 17-11-2019, 02:05   #18
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
I think you could reasonably talk the owner down to $50,000.

Presuming buying all new gear, you're looking at these costs to make the boat reliable and safe:

$5,000 in basic hull and deck work like re-bedding chainplates, hatches, and seals everywhere to get the boat dry which you will need to have in the high latitudes. Much of this you could do yourself if you have the skills.

$5,000 in new standing rigging and tuning.

$5,000 in haul-out, bottom prep, epoxy, paint, and rudder post overhaul.

$20,000 in new sail suit and running rigging.

$10,000 in new re-power, shaft, stuffing-box and prop. A 40-yo engine is not safe for cold-weather sailing.

$15,000 in modern electronics fit-out including an appropriately sized auto-pilot ram and radar. If you want comfort, you need a modern autopilot with a 9-axis gyro and wave-train prediction.

$2000 for water system replace.

$3000 in bedding, foam, curtains, and basic interior remodel.

So I'd plan on an additional $60K in refurb and upgrade. I think $110-$120 for a worthy high latitudes boat is a good deal.
A lot of work but I Agree with all of the above however would add a 25,000 contingency rounding to $150,000 for a pretty well refit ship. One hell of a boat! Bit that also assumed the decks are sound.....

Good luck.
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Old 17-11-2019, 02:51   #19
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

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Hi, I have an Aussie built Fisher 32, not nearly the size of this one I know, but I have to say that while it is not a sparkling performer under sail when compared to a fin keel boat or for that matter many other keel/ skeg hung rudder boats it is most definitely not a motor boat with a steadying sail.

I have sailed with a number of cynics on board who had this mindset and it was best summed up by the comment of one of the most cynical, "you know, this thing doesn't sail nearly as bad as I thought they did"


What he said. I’ve got a 1986 Fisher 37 and whilst it is never going to be a race boat it is more than capable of making passage under sail. People have sailed these around the world. Comes alive when the wind gets up. Not great in light airs that is what the engine is for. The 46 is a super boat. Post refit it will get you anywhere you want in comfort. A great design.
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Old 17-11-2019, 03:42   #20
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Yes i know...the 37 is a superb vessel for rough Terrain and it is available for reasonable prices in europe and sometimes even with aft cabin which makes her large enough Inside.


The "problem" is on the emotional side.
Tje 37 would be a great boat. The 46 my "arche"....come what may...



Hmmm....
I could wait for a 46...but maybe wait forever.
Or buy 37 and switch?
Boats are not very Liquid assets..


Or buy the 46 and enjoy refitting and meanwhile use my 25 Trailer boat ..


This really is not an easy decision.


Beside that... i like to work on gfk boats... i dont like metal ... i find it too difficult... gfk.is like wood somehow...
I am.stuck
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Old 17-11-2019, 04:36   #21
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

I'm 70% the way through of a major refit of an old boat - in my case, a 1970 Willard 36 displacement trawler that I've owned for 25-years. In some ways, the condition was similar to this Fischer when I left San Francisco last October and steamed 500 nms to Ensenada MX (70nms south of San Diego) where I found a good crew with labor rates in the $20/hr range.

This type of refit is not for the feint of heart, not for a novice boatowner, and not for a tight budget.

But in my opinion, there is some good news: she's in an area with a reputation for decent quality and low-cost boat repairs. If you plan to ship her to Europe (or anywhere else) to have these repairs made, pass on the boat - the labor costs will eat you alive and quickly devour any savings on boat purchase.

My observation: this boat may be a decent starting point - the stuff that makes her look really rough is largely stuff that's labor intensive, and it's in a cheap labor location so that's a benefit. The difficult part of having major work done in foreign lands is getting quality parts into the country. So would defer re-rigging and electronics until somewhere like the US or Europe.

I know most engines in this class of powerboat, but don't know the Ford Sabre, but it wouldn't scare me off as long as it starts promptly and doesn't blow excessive smoke. I know the Ford Lehman 120, and the Perkins Sabre 135 which are both good engines and reasonable to rebuild. Given the owner has owned the boat for a while, he may have a decent spares inventory. But I do not agree this engine needs to be replaced simply because it's old. God knows there are a gazillion WWII vintage GMC/Detroit's running around the world. My boat has a 30-year old Perkins 4.236 85hp and it's one of the few things I'm not replacing on my boat.

Bottom line this Fischer is already in a cheap labor market - a huge benefit. From the description, the owner sounds knowledgeable and forthright and may be able to assist with beginning of a refit and perhaps knows someone there who can help you manage. But it will take 3-6 months to get the work done. Do not even think of doing it yourself in a climate such as Central America - there are skilled, hard-working laborers who have generations of acclimatization.

In the end, no matter what you do, your planned trip will mean you will spend more on a boat than it's worth. It also means it will take time - it doesn't sound like you can afford a turnkey boat even if one were available. This boat needs more work than you'd hoped, but because it's a low-cost labor location, it would be a strong contender for me if I were in your shoes, and knowing what I know about doing this type of work.

Good luck!
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Old 17-11-2019, 07:54   #22
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

that rotten mess is gorgeous.
fix deck leaks and topsides leaks and clean the innards and have a great time. is a do able boat with good bones.
stuff the money guesstimates in a sack and toss.--better yet burn them as they are not accurate. those are prices based on refit in nyc or other less fortunate boating communities.
iff you are interested get a survey upon which you can base repairs and proceed. it is in guatemala so repairs will be 1/16 the guesstimate of the folks sitting elsewhere without means to support such a glorious project. or with means and boxes of jealousy.
i would do it but i think i would offer 50k. but that is a dream as i love my formosa and my low pricing for repairs outside of high priceville
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Old 17-11-2019, 08:37   #23
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

We don't know what you mean by "high latitudes," but please do not plan to take a plastic boat into the ice, no matter how "well-built" it is. Any water-logged cored areas will freeze and delaminate (if they haven't done so already). Striking ice while underway risks cracking your hull, and a single, small, unseen crack in an inaccessible area of the hull can sink your boat. You need an ice-classed vessel to spend time in high latitudes.
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Old 17-11-2019, 08:46   #24
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
that rotten mess is gorgeous.
fix deck leaks and topsides leaks and clean the innards and have a great time. is a do able boat with good bones.
stuff the money guesstimates in a sack and toss.--better yet burn them as they are not accurate. those are prices based on refit in nyc or other less fortunate boating communities.
iff you are interested get a survey upon which you can base repairs and proceed. it is in guatemala so repairs will be 1/16 the guesstimate of the folks sitting elsewhere without means to support such a glorious project. or with means and boxes of jealousy.
i would do it but i think i would offer 50k. but that is a dream as i love my formosa and my low pricing for repairs outside of high priceville
I wasn’t even considering labor costs as the add states all systems are original with some that ‘work’ to me this means they’re on their way out. Standing/running rigging (you can see it hasn’t been sailed in a long time) sails are most likely rotten as well, all through hulls, the leaks, the rot, electronics throughout (even if just basic systems) all hoses w/clamps, structural fasteners (bolts), the unknown core rot (there is some for sure) and the list goes on. There has obviously been next to no maintenance done in a long while and fixing things as they break. Taking this boat to Greenland without a thorough refit is a bad decision and not simply going for a nice weekend sail in the tropics.
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Old 17-11-2019, 08:55   #25
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Great boat when she was sound, which after years of warm fresh tropical rain filtering down to feed the rot she is certainly not. I imagine the current liveaboard owner grew tired of listening to the pumps run 24/7 and decided to move ashore with his memories.

Get some offshore experience and then maybe a berth on a capable voyaging boat that's headed for Labrador. You have no idea the money and heartbreak involved in never finishing a project like this. Hell, charter a crewed cruiser out of Halifax for a couple of months - guaranteed to be infinitely cheaper.

Nothing sadder than the back end of every boat yard - loose keels, open seams and broken dreams...........
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Old 17-11-2019, 08:55   #26
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Hello Friend,

I would guess that you answered your own question. You said:
"...but I am afraid"

I have found that is not the best attitude to have when entering into a project this big.

I rebuilt a huge old (1946) wooden sailboat (using ferrolite) which meant putting 250 gallons of resin, etc. over 2" planking. It took over a year of very hard work! But, I loved it and it was worth the effort.


My attitude upon entering this project?


"There are no challenges during this project that I am unwilling to tackle!"

I don't remember having any "...but I am afraid"

I suggest, Examine your attitude - or examine more sailboats

Friendly,

Dennis


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Old 17-11-2019, 09:26   #27
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

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That

Though I’m a still somewhat of a greenhorn/getting back into it boat refit wise, nothing screamed out that bad, though based on her size and where I’d want to get the boat to condition and outfit wise, well I got a 30’ for a reason, that’s a good chunk of boat lol
Biggest issue I see for that thing is location.

The wheel house is pretty cool
As said above and this one too
If you are handy and got the time , then a basic refrurb, re bedding hatches , sewing machine work , stripping varnish , re wiring certain aspects of the boat , a good hull clean and polish , new anti foul, re launder sails , does not cost a lot of money , labour is your killer and if you are able then do not listen to the 100000 refurb , this is nonsense , a good second hand engine if this on is shot , and re rigging your own boat with a rigger to inspect and give advice.
took me 1 full year to strip inside , re wire , re engine, re deck my boat yres it cost money for materials but easily durable and you end up with a boat that you know inside out and love, Put in a low offer after survey and I bet they bite mine did and I took $20000 of the price
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Old 17-11-2019, 09:54   #28
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

It's probably fine if the engine is good and not totally blister laden. Helluva stout boat. Everything bad may be cosmetic.
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Old 17-11-2019, 10:08   #29
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

It boils down to personal ability and motivation I think. I remember reading a book by a retired sea captain who was given a junk boat as a gag, but was able with his own two hands refurbish it in just over a year with hand tools and become the first person to circumnavigate the Earth single handed. But I have also stood sadly like at a funeral watching unfulfilled dreams being chopped up with chainsaws and crushed with a backhoe at the boatyard where I bought my first boat after it was largely abandoned. While I was a complete novice and held myself to a pretty low standard of boat refurbishing back then it did give me years of pleasure and made many trips to offshore islands. The crucial thing is not to fool yourself about your own abilities and motivation. I imagine that maybe no one has used that boat for sometime and there are many hidden things, but leaking hatches is pretty easily fixed and commonplace. I have a friend who makes bank in So Cal being factory licensed at fix leaking companionways on near new Beneteaus and Jeanneaus. I looked at a few Fishers when I was searching for Mana and was more put off by lack of sail area than anything. The other side of at least one coin is that if you are doing the work yourself or at least a lot of it that you will have a spacious place to live and room to have an indoor work shop.
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Old 17-11-2019, 11:02   #30
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Weren't the Fishers of this gen solid laminate on deck with no core?

I love project boats, and this looks like a great candidate, but just know it's going to be a huge project if you want anything more than just a liveaboard. The estimates listed above will be pretty accurate (high in some areas), but they missed electrical and were light on incidentals. Don't try to make it bristol... make it workboat in appearance (think galvanized rigging and basic paint over that damaged interior wood) and you'll be able to get through it remarkably quicker and cheaper... it fits the boats design anyway.

I'd suggest having John Brandes (Rio Dulce Marine Surveyors | Serving the Western Caribbean areas of Central America including Guatemala, Honduras, Belize, and Southern Mexico) do a quick stop to check over the boat. In 2013 we had just left the Rio when I found a potential boat on the river that I was interested in. We were now up to Mexico and I didn't want to turn around to inspect myself, so I had John do a quick inspection for around $100 (2013 and about two hours work).

Guatemala can be great for getting work done, but it's not the easiest or quickest to obtain the stuff needed for DIY work. Hopefully it has improved since we were there, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I were looking to do the projects myself and the low labor rate wasn't important. It's amazing having Amazon Prime deliveries next day when you're missing that one thing that prevents you from completing a project.... maybe that's why my incidental cost were so high

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