Buying a Yacht - Maintenance Records

[Iains boatyard]

Surely the broker can get information on the contractor who has serviced maintained the boat.
It will not have gone 12 years with nothing.
Sounds like a lazy broker looking for a sucker.

[Hoodsail]

I am a paper guy, so have a binder with sections for; rigging, electronics, engine, fresh water..I file receipts chronologically per section (no fraud here) and also record in boat's log (date/Vesper AIS xb8000) for quick review and easy reference. Cant imagine paying $1.5 million for a boat w/o maintenance records back at least 5 yrs and further back for major re-fits...thnks

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

There are a number of alternative methods of scheduling maintenance besides a “log”. Example. Monthly. I don’t have auto pay for some regular bills but at the first of every month I pay them. That reminds me to check the water level in the batteries. Going under the pilot house I can see several strainers and while I’m there check the generator oil level which requires opening up the sound shield so now I can see the date on the oil filter, the impeller, the coolant overflow tank...need I keep going?

I proceed through a checklist that I have hard wired in my brain. I have one for getting underway, rough weather, person overboard.

I’ll admit I am occasionally reminded that I have not finished x project as promised to my wife. These lapses create new neuron links as pain avoidance pathways are very strong. Similarly, food and love rewards clarify my daily tasks and help me prioritize those projects which will result in more carrot cake and less sticks. Things can be written into the brain just as easily as on paper. Paper is just easier to erase.

All of which brings up an interesting subject.

Over dependence upon electronic stuff in voyages.

It’s as if the brain has become a secondary instrument. Cell phone glued to the skull. An electronic bridge is nice to have, but I don’t COUNT on it. It has a lot of information for me to judge, but I’m not going with these facts alone.

A maintenance log is nice to have, but I would not count on it. I’ll continue my rounds looking for trouble in the engine room or out the pilot house glass.

Electronic fixation illness.

Anyone remember the Eastern Airline Crash in the Everglades?

The Pilot, the Co-Pilot , the Engineer and I think one or two on the crew became fixated on a light on the controls. Lots of discussion while nobody noticed the plane was dropping out of the sky.

Logs, written checklists, electronic glass bridge...it’s all nice stuff, but do not tell me my brain is not capable of significant memory pathways.

The argument can be made that use of a log could have its own negative influence on decisions...just as overestimating the value and importance of electronic information ...judged alone...could. There is also the component of belief. The light on the dash says worry...believe something is wrong. The log says don’t worry till next week. It’s easy to see one physical fact...a written word or a blinking light...as representing the entire picture. The forecast can’t be wrong, the plotter shows we are ok, the radar doesn’t show two targets...I see electronic fixation as a serious danger on the bridge. I’m not going to use a log to tell me when to do things. My brain needs memory practice.

And a few post it notes from my wife. Two heads ARE better than one.

Happy trails to you

Captain Mark and his manatee crew who took the “Bridge Management” course but claim ORCAS ate their homework.

This is all very well. But we all know that the human brain forgets things no matter how hard it tries to remember them

Do to lists and a paper maintenance log are not difficult to create or maintain and don’t require any technology beyond a biro.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

It's sort of the reason you use a good quality surveyor.

The best surveyor can only tell you what he has found. He cannot tell you the history of any system or component.

For example, it has a new alternator, has there been a history of alternator failures?

Was there ever a major engine problem?

Records are valuable, memories are faulty, checklists for future maintenance items are fine but don't tell you that they have been done previously.

Record keeping does not have to be onerous. Several people here have described simple note taking. An expensive vessel without that is a red flag for me.

[Joli]

I would fear any boat without a maintenance log is simply a boat with deferred maintenance.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Joli

I would fear any boat without a maintenance log is simply a boat with deferred maintenance.

Another possibility is that the previous owner just had plenty of money and didn't really care about the boat that much. He bought it, used it, and is now selling it. Maintenance, who cares, can't be bothered.
Record keeping? forgeddaboutit.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Another possibility is that the previous owner just had plenty of money and didn't really care about the boat that much. He bought it, used it, and is now selling it. Maintenance, who cares, can't be bothered.
Record keeping? forgeddaboutit.

That is very true. But twelve years is the life for many of these systems. Rigging, sails, electronics.... Nothing wrong with that philosophy but the next owner should be aware that all these items and more need replacement. Who knows the guy may have purchased the next boat, a 90'er and will do the same. Run it 10 or 12 years with little maintenance and then dump it. I would like that program. Buy new, use it, dump it

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Joli

That is very true. But twelve years is the life for many of these systems. Rigging, sails, electronics.... Nothing wrong with that philosophy but the next owner should be aware that all these items and more need replacement. Who knows the guy may have purchased the next boat, a 90'er and will do the same. Run it 10 or 12 years with little maintenance and then dump it. I would like that program. Buy new, use it, dump it

But neither you or I have done that, have we?

I care a lot about my boat, it is important to me. I try to keep it up. I do maintenance, I keep records. I don't have much respect for someone who buys a boat and doesn't care about it, buys, uses it, dumps it, regardless of how rich he is.

[Iains boatyard]

I will throw in the thought the boat is stolen from another distant region, I would be looking for more information on builder, registration etc.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by wingssail

But neither you or I have done that, have we?

I care a lot about my boat, it is important to me. I try to keep it up. I do maintenance, I keep records. I don't have much respect for someone who buys a boat and doesn't care about it, buys, uses it, dumps it, regardless of how rich he is.

We've bought new boats, raced them and sold them. We've also bought used boats and upgraded them.

We understand the life of components and where the boat is in that life cycle. If you're buying a used boat and the equipment hasn't been replaced prior to the sale of the boat you simply deduct that amount from your offer.

It's not honest or dishonest, it's not respect or disrespect. It's just how some people manage a depreciating asset.

We were looking at a larger boat last year and we told the broker the rigging was original, the sails we're original, the electronics we're original and if we made an offer it would be based on the asking price minus replacing all of the above. This stuff isn't personal, it's just business.

We do maintain our boat, our summer refit is six figures but we fully expect a buyer to discount for the life of components when we sell.

[Jim Cate]

We were looking at a larger boat last year and we told the broker the rigging was original, the sails we're original, the electronics we're original and if we made an offer it would be based on the asking price minus replacing all of the above. This stuff isn't personal, it's just business.

That practice won't get you very far if the seller has factored in the age of the components into his asking price... as I would have done were it me selling the boat. So, maybe not so businesslike after all...

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Another possibility is that the previous owner just had plenty of money and didn't really care about the boat that much. He bought it, used it, and is now selling it. Maintenance, who cares, can't be bothered.
Record keeping? forgeddaboutit.

When I was trying to buy an Oyster 12 years ago, that was the TYPICAL case. Owner with plenty of money; bought new; did ARC to say that he did it (and had the boat brought back by pro delivery crew who motored all the way back across); sold the boat on when it wasn't so new any more.


Some of them had had pretty good maintenance where cosmetics were concerned, but not where systems were concerned.


This boat looks really good cosmetically, but has been all the way around the world, so I was concerned this might be a similar case. Survey is essential but it can't tell you about the age and history of the different elements and components of the vessel. You need both survey AND some kind of history to have a decent picture.



But now I've actually met the owner and I've gotten a sheaf of receipts -- he didn't keep records but he did keep all the receipts. So I'm plowing through them.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Joli

We've bought new boats, raced them and sold them. We've also bought used boats and upgraded them.

We understand the life of components and where the boat is in that life cycle. If you're buying a used boat and the equipment hasn't been replaced prior to the sale of the boat you simply deduct that amount from your offer.

It's not honest or dishonest, it's not respect or disrespect. It's just how some people manage a depreciating asset.

We were looking at a larger boat last year and we told the broker the rigging was original, the sails we're original, the electronics we're original and if we made an offer it would be based on the asking price minus replacing all of the above. This stuff isn't personal, it's just business.

We do maintain our boat, our summer refit is six figures but we fully expect a buyer to discount for the life of components when we sell.

Deduct from what you consider to be the fair market value of that type of boat if it's in top condition, NOT the asking price. As Jim pointed out, the asking price might already take these things into account.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Deduct from what you consider to be the fair market value of that type of boat if it's in top condition, NOT the asking price. As Jim pointed out, the asking price might already take these things into account.

The buyer is the only one who can determine if the boat is worth the asking price as is. That's not something we on a forum would know. We do know based on what's been stated that there is no maintenance log, so probably no maintenance of major systems. I would plan on replacing everything I've mentioned, others will disagree.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

That practice won't get you very far if the seller has factored in the age of the components into his asking price... as I would have done were it me selling the boat. So, maybe not so businesslike after all...

Jim

I doubt most sellers have gone through the bother of getting quotes for replacing all major items and adjusted their price based on those quotes. But we do have a friend who's buying an 83' for about 40% of asking price.....