Buying a Yacht - Maintenance Records

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by more

Ok i make maintenance records for the last 10 year only for you. wait i must go in shop buying 10 difrent pen. what you like see inside what equipment you want sea i change.



A boat with a maintenance log clearly tells me that the skipper/owner has a problem in life and he is or rich or amateur.

I have a maintenance log. It’s filled in when some sort of maintenance is done. Change head hoses? Date and engine hours the hoses were changed is noted.

Are you calling me an amateur, because I’m not rich?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by more

¸
or Dockhead can order new yacht and wait 12-24 month for delivery and check all this in your list and more.

It's just items that need to be replaced after 12 years of use. Unless you don't believe in maintenance.

[Greatest Lakes]

Personally, when I replace items, I date them. Oil changes and fuel filters are done at the same time, so only the oil filter is dated. Hoses are marked either at the suction end, or at the through hull. Since the boat is in Michigan, there is an annual haul out for winter and there is usually a short list of under the waterline components and paint that get done. New parts are always dated somewhere, PM notes only on the wear parts.

Pictured, I replaced my original Barlow winches with new Andersen 40 self tailing winches. You can see the install date, and the note I was just married per my wife's request.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I have a maintenance log. It’s filled in when some sort of maintenance is done. Change head hoses? Date and engine hours the hoses were changed is noted.

Are you calling me an amateur, because I’m not rich?

Doesn't matter what more calls you. You've no intention of chartering from him, nor buying any of his boats post-charter. Nor us, either. A pay no attention to the man behind the curtain moment.

We do as you do, and I tend to agree with the post above, that if the maintenance records are not kept, somebody is sloppy about their maintenance. Might not be a deal breaker, but probably a lower offer because of the uncertainty about what to expect...and when.

One thought I had about the owner was that if he/she was used to having a personal assistant or a secretary record *whatever*, that he/she would not have developed the habit of record keeping, or dropped it as a young person. Something simply outside the skill set, or, not valued enough to retain. Not an intentional disrespecting of whoever takes over stewardship of the vessel, an error of omission.

Ann

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes

Personally, when I replace items, I date them. Oil changes and fuel filters are done at the same time, so only the oil filter is dated. Hoses are marked either at the suction end, or at the through hull. Since the boat is in Michigan, there is an annual haul out for winter and there is usually a short list of under the waterline components and paint that get done. New parts are always dated somewhere, PM notes only on the wear parts.

Pictured, I replaced my original Barlow winches with new Andersen 40 self tailing winches. You can see the install date, and the note I was just married per my wife's request.

That seems to me like a very good practice.

However, an actual log is also needed in my opinion. Hell, I used to keep maintenance logs even on my cars! The once I used to maintain myself, back in the day. Then later, when I had a driver, he always kept a log! I don't understand really how you can fix or replace stuff on something as complex as a cruising yacht and then lose track of what you've done and when.

[more]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That seems to me like a very good practice.

However, an actual log is also needed in my opinion. Hell, I used to keep maintenance logs even on my cars! The once I used to maintain myself, back in the day. Then later, when I had a driver, he always kept a log! I don't understand really how you can fix or replace stuff on something as complex as a cruising yacht and then lose track of what you've done and when.

because some people have brain and memory. but also in charter we have bookkeeping company, always can go in the archive,but not for new customer curiosity.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by more

because some people have brain and memory. but also in charter we have bookkeeping company, always can go in the archive,but not for new customer curiosity.

So, you’re also an amateur who’s rich? You have people who keep logs for you.

Enough said.

[Manateeman]

No log or written book equals sloppy maintenance?
Are you serious?
I don’t have a ship log. I don’t have a engine log. I don’t write down all the things that need to be fixed or the order I’m going to do the work... So I’m a slob?
WOW. Guess I’ll have to buy new yachting whites to get into this club.
I write on my filters, or on blue tape what dates I need. I have a brain and it’s usually adequate to keep track of what needs to be done.
I chuck all my receipts so the manatee crew won’t find out we have money in the bank and demand imported beer.
Most of the time...I’m just too busy ACTUALLY DOING the work rather than writing it down. There is just no justification for disrespecting someone or their vessel because they do things differently.
I don’t need a log book to survey a boat.
Proof is in the vessel not in some book which might be a fairytale.
Next the manatee crew will demand we join a yacht club.
I nominate this thread as five star silly of the day.
Mark

[EngineerRetired]

It's sort of the reason you use a good quality surveyor.

[mvweebles]

With all due respect, thread thus far has not accounted for the vessel under consideration is a 70 footer, 12 years old, and in the $1.5m range (over $2m new, plus upgrades). In that period of time, someone has likely shelled out over $250k in maintenance, repairs, and upgrades. This is far beyond grabbing a sharpie and dating an oil filter. Some installations on boats like these can be difficult and require highly specialized knowledge. To have no accounting for maintenance snd upgrades on a larger yacht is a yellow flag. Especially as boats in this size often have professional crew aboard at least some of the time.

Dockhead - on >$1m yachts the last 10 years, I've seen the greatest post-purchase surprise expense I've seen have been electronics and electrics. A trivial error at sea trial balloons into a major issue once an expert is called in to troubleshoot. Any house systems that are networked to run on an iPad or alike are probably end of life and were highly specialized in how they were originally configured and can be difficult to troubleshoot.

Good luck.

Peter

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

It's sort of the reason you use a good quality surveyor.

As hinted in my response above this, more than a single surveyor. Buyers of used boats in this category are well advised to hire a separate electronics evaluation from the best marine electrician they can find. I have met Surveyors who had acceptable knowledge of machinery, and acceptable knowledge of rigging. I have yet to meet one who could do more than basic accounting of sophisticated electronics.

Personally, if I were a buyer in the $1.5m category, I'd call Steve D'Antonio.

Peter

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

With all due respect, thread thus far has not accounted for the vessel under consideration is a 70 footer, 12 years old, and in the $1.5m range (over $2m new, plus upgrades). In that period of time, someone has likely shelled out over $250k in maintenance, repairs, and upgrades. This is far beyond grabbing a sharpie and dating an oil filter. Some installations on boats like these can be difficult and require highly specialized knowledge. To have no accounting for maintenance snd upgrades on a larger yacht is a yellow flag. Especially as boats in this size often have professional crew aboard at least some of the time.

Dockhead - on >$1m yachts the last 10 years, I've seen the greatest post-purchase surprise expense I've seen have been electronics and electrics. A trivial error at sea trial balloons into a major issue once an expert is called in to troubleshoot. Any house systems that are networked to run on an iPad or alike are probably end of life and were highly specialized in how they were originally configured and can be difficult to troubleshoot.

Good luck.

Peter

If I were spending that kind of money on a boat I would be relying on My inspectors diagnostics rather than an alleged maintenance log..
Running systems on an Ipad.. kinda Mickey Mouse for this calibre..

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If I were spending that kind of money on a boat I would be relying on My inspectors diagnostics rather than an alleged maintenance log..
Running systems on an Ipad.. kinda Mickey Mouse for this calibre..

You might be surprised what is run off a tablet interface on yachts in this category. It's seductive technology and looks super-simple when it works as intended. But behind the curtain is a fairly sophisticated fabric of Network Gear, IP Addresses, Interfaces, and of course the support systems to keep it running (including semi-industrial class UPSs). Everything from standard boat systems like nav systems, thrusters, "Sky-Hook" docking systems, and comms through support systems such as watermakers, stacked-inverters and auto-start generators; to creature-comfort items like multi-zone sound systems, KVH satellite systems, indoor/outdoor/underwater lighting and motorized window shades. Heck, won't even know what warranty service has been performed. For example, some engine manufacturers launch their engines with a mildly abrasive oil that requires a change at 100 hours.

This is likely a much different transaction than buying a 25-year old 42-foot boat for under $200k that doesn't have a logbook. In the not-too-distant past, this 70-footer was brand new and cost $2m (equipped). Much of the work on this boat was likely done by OEM technicians/warranty who all left lengthy receipts that have apparently disappeared. That's yellow flag.

While I mostly agree with the sentiment that whatever inspection team the buyer brings should be the first line of due diligence, my point is yachts in this category have often had spectacular amounts of money spent on them somewhere within the first 15-years. The yacht likely came with an impressive stack of manuals for the various installed gear. And they've usually had professional crew and maintenance who almost invariably leave reports of work accomplished. Not having records/receipts of maintenance and swap-outs will extend the inspection process.

Peter

[Joli]

Without a log you don't know what's been done and have to assume everything will require refurbishment or replacement.

Just taking apart a 12 year old rig that hasn't been down and disassembled in 12 years is a big project. If the turnbuckles are BSI they tend to hold water and rust under the barrel. Certainly the rig can be unjacked to get it down but then where are you? You have 12 year old rigging with no maintenance, will it even come apart? Plus the boat will be uninsurable unless the rigging is replaced.

Like I said earlier, figure replacing and refurbishing everything. This is big bucks and it's the reason many big boats languish on the market. If I were buying it I would budget $500k to get it ready to go.

[flightlead404]

I'd be very surprised with a yacht of this size, complexity, and price if the owner were maintaining the vessel him/herself. I would expect there to be one or more professional maintenance individuals or more likely companies who should be able to provide the information. Similarly, if the vessel is owned/operated by a company for commercial purposes I was expect that sort of record keeping.

Now, if the records exist but the broker simply isn't willing to turn them over then that also raises questions.

Perhaps the logs show issues like sunk at the slip or repeated issues with engines or repair from an argument with a reef.

Personally, with the level of PM on even my simple little boat, I doubt being able to remember exactly when I changed oil, lubed a winch or windlass etc. For those items I have started a simple log. I don't see how anyone can keep track of the PM items on a vessel that size without records.