Buying a sailboat on the Great Lakes or buying on the ocean?

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

Thank you Chris. I'm on the U.S. side. Right now they're banning U.S. pleasure craft from Canadian waters so Erie Canal would be the best route. I'm planning to spend next summer getting familiar with the boat I buy (right now I'm leaning toward a C&C 37), then either leave around this time next year and take the Erie Canal route, or if travel to Canada resumes, remain on Superior until the following spring, then head down the St. Lawrence Seaway.

Considering that any boat you buy will also need a certain level of refitting, apart from getting the sailing experience (and run more upgrades), there is a clear advantage in having a new boat close to where you live in order to do all that in the easiest conditions on the hard and in the water.
Best of luck!

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Considering that any boat you buy will also need a certain level of refitting, apart from getting the sailing experience (and run more upgrades), there is a clear advantage in having a new boat close to where you live in order to do all that in the easiest conditions on the hard and in the water.
Best of luck!

Thank you. I'm finding that asking price and the amount of repair and upgrading required aren't as closely related as I would have expected. It seems like regardless how much I spend on a boat I'll need to budget $10-$20 grand for such expenses! The plus side is that if I do as much as I can myself I'll be intimately familiar with my boat inside and out and better prepared for the inevitable repairs I'll need to make at sea or anchored off some remote tropical island. And I'll also have a better idea of what I need in my toolkit for emergencies.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

Thank you. I'm finding that asking price and the amount of repair and upgrading required aren't as closely related as I would have expected. It seems like regardless how much I spend on a boat I'll need to budget $10-$20 grand for such expenses! The plus side is that if I do as much as I can myself I'll be intimately familiar with my boat inside and out and better prepared for the inevitable repairs I'll need to make at sea or anchored off some remote tropical island. And I'll also have a better idea of what I need in my toolkit for emergencies.

This is also a good reason to take your time with the boat. Get to know it, and more importantly, get to know yourself. I believe the best way to know what you really need and want in a boat is by getting out there are cruising for a while.

Doing this will teach you what is important vs what other people tell you is important.

[hpeer]

It seems like regardless how much I spend on a boat I'll need to budget $10-$20 grand for such expenses!

Optimist!

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Optimist!

Yep. The more I learn about sailboats, the broker I get!

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The storms are well known by the time they get that far inland and there are plenty of stops along the route where you can hold up and wait out the weather or flooding.

While you always must respect the weather anywhere, there really isn't anything special you have to worry about if you are paying attention. The Corp of Engineers does a pretty good job controlling things and with the spring floods long gone by the time people head south in the fall, they typically have capacity to moderate it with the dams they run. We sat out a week on the Mississippi when it was flooded but no real concern other than having to wait it out.

So do pay attention to the weather forecast but hurricane avoidance really isn't a big consideration with the route.

The trouble is exactly that people DON’T respect it enough because it is no longer a hurricane and thus don’t take proper precautions.

How much flooding can be controlled depends a great deal on the overall conditions in the area for the last several weeks - if it has been particularly dry or particularly wet, the ground can’t handle the large amounts of rain and you get considerable amounts of flash flooding which then dumps a lot of debris into the larger rivers even if the river level itself doesn’t change that much, or can cause localized flooding in the river that causes stuff to come loose at moorings and marinas, or things get knocked loose by wind gusts.

This doesn’t mean ‘don’t go that way’ it just means you should be prepared to stay put and wait things out as needed and understand that schedule adjustments are just part of the package of traveling through this end of the country during hurricane season. People aren’t often killed, but property damage is not at all uncommon, which would put rather a damper on continuing the trip. This is not an issue at all further west since hurricanes pretty much never track that far over, so I just didn’t want the OP to think “well, it won’t be a hurricane by then, so it won’t cause any problems.”

[Ltfdrebbin]

Just want to say hello quickly. I'm sort of in the same boat as you. Currently looking for a 40ish foot boat, we live near Cleveland Ohio (Lake Erie), and I spent most of my life on motorcycles. Mostly roadracing V-twins. Couldn't right real good, tho.

Sam

[wildernessdave]

My wife and I sailed out boat from Knife River, MN (near Duluth on Lake Superior) down to the Bahamas for the winter. We went via the Erie Canal and left Knife River in mid-August and reached the Bahamas at the end of November. The Great Lakes are beautiful and I would say the Canadian Shore of Lake Superior is a world class cruising destination that sees very few sailboats. If you are looking for solitude and wilderness anchorages it is worth spending a few weeks, or more poking along the Canadian shore if you have time and the border is open.

The Erie Canal is interesting and if you take your time there are lots of little towns with free docks and services along the way. Taking the mast down is an added expense, but it can provide an opportunity to do some mast work, rewiring, etc if needed and there are marinas on either side of the canal that step a lot of masts, so we did not find the mast issue to be a big deal.

Good luck!
Dave

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wildernessdave

My wife and I sailed out boat from Knife River, MN (near Duluth on Lake Superior) down to the Bahamas for the winter. We went via the Erie Canal and left Knife River in mid-August and reached the Bahamas at the end of November. The Great Lakes are beautiful and I would say the Canadian Shore of Lake Superior is a world class cruising destination that sees very few sailboats. If you are looking for solitude and wilderness anchorages it is worth spending a few weeks, or more poking along the Canadian shore if you have time and the border is open.

What Dave says. I spent a decade plying those shores. Awesome cruising ground for those who appreciate wilderness and getting away from it all. If it wasn't winter, I might never have left.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Ardbeg

Another thing. If your boat has spent its life on Lake Superior, the thru hull black water discharge is probably sealed. You will have to fix that to discharge overboard at some point with a Y valve or something similar. Not many pump outs east Of Quebec City. You will still need a way to seal it closed when transiting USA waters of the Great Lakes.

Or it flat out may not even exist. Mine goes to tank alone no other option.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by wildernessdave

My wife and I sailed out boat from Knife River, MN (near Duluth on Lake Superior) down to the Bahamas for the winter.
Dave

I love the Knife River area! Late last winter I was debating whether to buy a house near there or buy a sailboat. The sailboat won out, but a home near Knife River was my fall back plan. In fact I was going to try to combine the two and rent a slip at Knife River until I leave for good next summer but they didn't have an opening.

[yesthatsue]

We just bought, here in the Great Lakes, last weekend. We had had our eye on a beautiful little yawl that was lying in Massachusetts, but with the US/Canadian border closed, we looked around to see if there were comparable boats available locally, and found a bigger boat in good shape for the same money.

Buying here in Toronto will let us get used to her, and then go do an extended Great Lakes voyage to visit friends up in Lake Superior, before we attempt the big trip south.

[Justcuz]

Originally Posted by Flightdeck

Hi Darwin
A few throughts, in no particular order.
1. Agree with buying a freshwater boat, much less to bring up to snuff for long term cruising. Had a Catalina 36 in North Carolina...and a constant battle with corrosion.
2. C & Cs are racers (I am a recovered racer) and are relatively inexpensive, but beware of the core decks. As a racer, it is fast, BUT tender, and may not be the most comfortable in a seaway.
3. Was a pro crew on a C & C 61 that we took from Chicago to Miami, through the Erie Barge Canal. Low clearance, and needed to take down the mast. We sailed through a hurricane and broke the boom in 25' seas about 100m off shore in cold air and water. Now makes for good cocktail talk about problems calming down moving parts wtih greenies washing down the deck.
4. Currently have a Shannon 38, thought about taking it out the Saint Lawrence and then either across the pond or points south. Friends have made the sail, a bit scratchy in certain areas, planning for fuel, water, etc required before you leave. Time of year is critical and avoiding storm season in August/September strongly recommended. Tight timing to get get to the turning point wx turns nasty.
5. Sarah Belle is on Lake Superior. Canada is closed for the year...so much for north shore this year.
6. Strongly recommend you get a strong boat and getting to know it before setting out. An SSB/Ham radio and weather tracking and other electronics should be thought through. Make sure everyting works and in good shape. Plan spare parts.
7. If you are starting in the Great Lakes, you might try joining Great Lakes Cruising Club...great cruising information and good to meet other cruisers and get alot of stories and advice. If on Lake Superior, a copy of Lake Superior Cruising Guide is the bible up here.
8. A copy of Jimmy Cornell "World Cruising Routes" provides great information.
9. A blue water cruiser, like Sarah Belle, would be my first coice for a boat. A bit more money, but the strength and stability is well worth it. Had to sail 100km to haul last winter in gale force winds and 15-25' waves, she performed flawlessly, better than the crew.
Much more to think about before buying and setting out...but this forum is a good start.
Good luck, email if you wish, CaptainBruce@SarahBelle.org

Capt Bruce knows his stuff and his boat, SarahBelle is many moons a better boat than that pilot house you have your eye on. And really not much more expensive. We've looked at the pilot house and SarahBelle and there's no comparison. If it were me I'd send him a note...

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Justcuz

Capt Bruce knows his stuff and his boat, SarahBelle is many moons a better boat than that pilot house you have your eye on. And really not much more expensive. We've looked at the pilot house and SarahBelle and there's no comparison. If it were me I'd send him a note...

I've sent him a couple of notes. I'm definitely interested in the SarahBelle, but there's not a lot of info in the ad so I asked him a few questions a couple of days ago. Hopefully he's out sailing and enjoying this lovely September we're having!
Pricing deck repairs makes a solid fiberglass hull and deck appealing. What are your thoughts about operating full-keel boats solo? The seem like they might be handfuls to maneuver around harbors.

[Justcuz]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

I've sent him a couple of notes. I'm definitely interested in the SarahBelle, but there's not a lot of info in the ad so I asked him a few questions a couple of days ago. Hopefully he's out sailing and enjoying this lovely September we're having!
Pricing deck repairs makes a solid fiberglass hull and deck appealing. What are your thoughts about operating full-keel boats solo? The seem like they might be handfuls to maneuver around harbors.

Yeah definitely a good question. Honestly I'm probably not experienced enough to be able to give a good opinion there. I know Bruce single handed Sarah Belle often. I own a full keel boat and it's really only reversing that is the enormous challenge IMO. Certainly in tight harbors I get nervous but that would be the case on a 37 C&C or a 38 Shannon...or my 29' Island Packet for that matter. It's just nerve wracking period.

I do know that boat is just built well and ready to cruise. Hard to ignore.