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Old 02-12-2019, 07:43   #1
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Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

My head is still spinning after the boat show">Annapolis boat show as I have been in the market for a bluewater cruiser for over a year now. I never considered buying new as I have always felt it was 1. out of my price range for the type of yacht I want and 2. Usually a poor financial decision given the amount of depreciation.

But then two things happened. The marine finance rep pre approved me for way more than I ever thought and then I fell in love with one of the show boats on display. Without giving away the name of the builder and model because I have found my self in deep negotiations that they have asked to keep confidential, does anyone have any experience out there negotiating price on the show model?

I have been told that production manufactures have about 30% to play with but semi custom and custom boat yards such as this one have only around 10%. The advertised price at the boat show was about 9% off spec "before arm wrestling". Given that its been sailed up and down the east coast by a professional crew for the boat shows this year yet maintained in pristine condition I'm wondering how much lower they will go. Also, Ive been told that buying hull No.1 can be risky. I realize that negotiations such as these are very individualized but any and all advice would be helpful. Thanks in advance
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:55   #2
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

I have no experience with boat show Boat buying. However, I have had a lot of experience with house buying and selling , banks and bank loans and haggling.
I dont imagine that boat buying is that much different than those things. So, for what its worth, here is my two cents:
1) banks want to lend you money. They want to see you up to your eyeballs in debt, so they will do their fancy math and put the numbers on paper ( everything always is so cut and dried on paper, isnt it?) And badda big badda boom...you gots yourself a mortgage!! Except the thing is...while you can afford the mortgage on paper, in real life its different. In real life crap happens. In real life, I dont spend the same amount on food each month. Or gas. Then there is the dentist....so yeah, we were sooooooo mortgage poor with our first house because we thought like idiots, the bank would not lend us the money if we were going to be too strapped. Well, they did, and we were. Being "mortgage poor" with not a cent to actually DO anything didnt work well for me.
2) I always, always, lowballed on my house offers. A lot. Yes yes there is the " ohhhh you dont want to offend them" mindset, but they will get over it. You go in very low, and just see whats what. You might be surprised.
3) haggle your ass off, politely! Walk away. This is key. Walk away. Scare them, then come back when they chase you.
In a glut of boats and luxury items...I think the ball is in your court to call the shots--whats the worst that could happen if you offer a really low price?
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Old 04-12-2019, 18:31   #3
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Remember to take into account the necessary additional equipment required to make your acquisition ready for your anticipated blue water adventure. Most new boats are just waiting for thousands of dollars to be spent to get them to your comfort level.
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Old 04-12-2019, 18:34   #4
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

In this specific instance it's going to depend on the actual boat. For a cat, particularly one in serious demand, you won't be able to move an inch. For some less-well-respected monohulls, particularly from smaller privately-owned companies, you might well be able to push a whole lot.

Is the particular model you're buying one that's popular or low-volume?
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Old 04-12-2019, 19:16   #5
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
In this specific instance it's going to depend on the actual boat. For a cat, particularly one in serious demand, you won't be able to move an inch. For some less-well-respected monohulls, particularly from smaller privately-owned companies, you might well be able to push a whole lot.

Is the particular model you're buying one that's popular or low-volume?
Read the post, ye scurvy dog.
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Old 04-12-2019, 19:20   #6
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Everything is negotiable.

The other poster has an excellent point on banks. Be careful, the bank will lend you as much money as they think they can get. I usually go with the rule of not getting in hock more than 25% of my net income, especially for something I'm not living in like a boat.

I just bought a cat, myself. (The're getting very nice).

Out of the box. needs....
New sails. (left in bag in moist environment, covered in mildew)
No bowsprit for spinnaker
no spinnaker
lifeboat
epirb
autopilot
freezer, (comes with fridge only)
New props, (bought engine upgrade, stock props are now undersized)
Dinghy
Motor for dinghy
flares
(required USCG safety gear)
lifejackets
enclosure/dodger
rigging tune, (new I know, but somehow not tuned, some spreader lines are seriously loose).
radar
AIS
curtains for giant very clear cabin windows unless i want to put on a show.
dishes
flatware
pots, and pans
microwave
icemaker
marine clothes washer.

Some of these things are arguably optional, and a lot of them are going to be delayed purchases.

But just like a brand new house, by the time i furnish this thing out, (not even mentioning hatch covers, or rail mounted BBQ), I'm looking easily at another $10-20k added onto purchase price.

Just leave yourself some room, life jackets, and required safety gear add up fast, and are way more money than you (I) expected.
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Old 04-12-2019, 19:23   #7
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

I am not sure this comment is exactly applicable to the boat you are considering, but it might come in handy for others if not for you.

For several years our cruising schedule has us tied up for maintenance at a boat yard where many of the boats, and especially many of the catamarans, are rigged for the Annapolis boat show. Having watched first hand, I would NEVER buy a "boat show boat", neither multihull, monohull, nor dinghy!

As a rule, the rigging is totally rushed, and completed half-assed by marginally competent crew hired just for the "rush season". Not by the yard, because they don't do any of this work, but by the big name dealers who are responsible for commissioning these boats.

We have seen spars dropped on boats, but it was OK--you couldn't see the cracked fiberglass from on deck at the show.

Rigging crews reading each other instruction sheets and not understanding what the words meant.

An anchor chain loaded on a boat where it skipped out of the gypsy every few feet because it wasn't a matching size, but the show is next week and there is no time to fix it.

AND our all time favorite boat yard quote while rigging a boat for the show, "It doesn't have to work, it only has to look good."

After this experience, I would NEVER buy a new cruising boat that wasn't delivered ready to sail at the factory where somebody who was involved with building the boat could come on the first couple of days of shakedown.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:12   #8
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Yes we have discussed all of the add ons in detail and the sales and service manager have been very upfront with what that will cost. In fact they offered to give parts at their wholesale discount and oversee all labor necessary.
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Old 08-12-2019, 20:26   #9
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

I don't know if I would be brave enough to buy hull #1.

The first hull is where any issues with the design might show. Hopefully they can be corrected in the first boat, but they should be corrected before later boats are built.

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Old 09-12-2019, 00:13   #10
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
I am not sure this comment is exactly applicable to the boat you are considering, but it might come in handy for others if not for you.

For several years our cruising schedule has us tied up for maintenance at a boat yard where many of the boats, and especially many of the catamarans, are rigged for the Annapolis boat show. Having watched first hand, I would NEVER buy a "boat show boat", neither multihull, monohull, nor dinghy!

As a rule, the rigging is totally rushed, and completed half-assed by marginally competent crew hired just for the "rush season". Not by the yard, because they don't do any of this work, but by the big name dealers who are responsible for commissioning these boats.

We have seen spars dropped on boats, but it was OK--you couldn't see the cracked fiberglass from on deck at the show.

Rigging crews reading each other instruction sheets and not understanding what the words meant.

An anchor chain loaded on a boat where it skipped out of the gypsy every few feet because it wasn't a matching size, but the show is next week and there is no time to fix it.

AND our all time favorite boat yard quote while rigging a boat for the show, "It doesn't have to work, it only has to look good."

After this experience, I would NEVER buy a new cruising boat that wasn't delivered ready to sail at the factory where somebody who was involved with building the boat could come on the first couple of days of shakedown.
I understand and agree with what you're saying. I've seen many examples of that.

But, the Amel company is an exception. They finish all their boats the same way at the factory themselves. I've seen this myself. There may be other companies too.

It should be noted that Hull #1 boats are used by factories to learn a new design. There might be issues, big or small. If you buy a hull #1, make sure that the company will stand behind it's product and fix any problems that are found. This is very important.
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Old 11-12-2019, 14:39   #11
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

My opinion...

Never buy a toy on credit. Mortgage a house = yes.

A boat = NO!!!

GL with your dilemna
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Old 11-12-2019, 15:07   #12
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

I bought/ordered my boat with a negotiated price point for letting them use it at the Annapolis boat show (in fact I saw of my boat before I saw the finished product as I was overseas for the show and only took possession after the show). I'll disclose the financial aspects if you PM me, not on the public forum pages.
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Old 11-12-2019, 15:18   #13
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Whatever discount you get, make sure the boat you're buying has the*best set-up for you.

I bought my Toronto boat from the original owner, who had bought it at the Toronto International Boat Show, lo, these many years ago. It had lots of bells and whistles (for the time) but he did not realize that the company had two engine options -- the OMC Zephyr saildrive or a Yamaha diesel with a shaft. If he had known that, he told me later, he would not have bought the model boat, which had the OMC, but would have asked the company for another vessel.

That said, I rather like the OMC ... it has lots of grunt and the prop is pretty much right at the centre of action. Downside is you have to mix oil into the gas and there's a lot of smoke (it's a two-stroke). It is also more difficult to replace/repower than the Yamaha would have been.

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Old 11-12-2019, 15:52   #14
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Re: Buying a "new" showboat at what discount

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwarrington View Post
My head is still spinning after the Annapolis boat show as I have been in the market for a bluewater cruiser for over a year now. I never considered buying new as I have always felt it was 1. out of my price range for the type of yacht I want and 2. Usually a poor financial decision given the amount of depreciation.
I think you already had a good rational thought w/#2 above. If money is no object then go for it, but new boats are not a good financial decision.

So, its hull #1, have you sailed it yet in some decent conditions? IMO wouldn't lay down any $$ until I knew it was really what I wanted in an offshore boat. Have eliminated boats that we thought made our short list, but after we took them out in real conditions they were off the list.

Too many used boats out there, that it would be difficult to believe you couldn't find one on the east coast that would work for you.


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