Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living aboar

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by CaptainSostre

Those costs are that bad. I'd plan on getting something smaller too. Have you sold it or is the boat still in your possession?

Don't know what costs you are calling bad. Island Times expenses seem to be pretty normal for a boat.

My first boat, a Columbia 26, got more use than any of the bigger boats I've owned since. It was so easy to get underway, just drop the dock lines and push it out of the slip and sail away. Honed my sailing skills on that boat and learned a bit about boat maintnance and the realities of boat ownership. Would definitely say go the route of a smaller boat as a learning tool. Sold the boat after a couple years for what I paid for it. Did no upgrades, repairs or additions to the boat other than basic maintenance.

Get something around 25' with an outboard. That's a boat big enough to actually do local cruising, able to survive even serious weather, but not so big that it will cost you a lot to own. I say outboard because the engine will be the costliest thing to fix should something go seriously wrong. If it becomes terminal, donate it to the fishies and buy another used motor. Things like roller furling are nice to have but not absolutely necessary. Sails should be in good condition as new replacements are pricey. If you buy the boat right, wax and buff it back to shiny, varnish/cetol the exterior wood, and generally keep it clean, you will certainly be able to sell it for what you paid and maybe even for more.

[Island Time O25]

Although my first boat was a project I don't regret getting it nor missing my 1st season sailing it as I was busy getting it in shape. I actually wouldn't even miss the 1st season had it not been for circumstances beyond my control where a friend of a friend agreed to do the needed repairs for very reasonable cost but due to family circumstances had to move to the West Coast and I couldn't afford the triple his price I was being quoted by the yards. But I did find an affrodable "boatyard guy" to do it on his days off (and for even less money than the original estimate of the 1st guy) but that was already in September/October.

I am not recommending to anyone to go that route unless you have access to inexpensive and reliable labor. But other than structural repairs (and my fist boat needed them) everything else I don't see as a project. A boat can be cleaned up in a week. One does not need boat specific cushions made for thousands of dollars as one can get them at Walmart, IKEA (each IKEA has a "bargain" room where they sell returns, etc. and one can find nice cushions often matching for $5-10 each) or some bargain outlet for under $20 a cushion. Nor does one need crisp new sails on a first boat as that's a few thousand dollars worth of a setback. Used ones picked up on C-list for $100-$200 each will do the job for a few seasons. And even if they last 1 season it is still may be cheaper to get them used annualy than new ones for $2-3K once every 10 years. Any osmosis issues or whatnot should not even be on the radar if you're not planning to keep the boat for 5-10 years unless you're in the water year round. Same with most of everything else. And after you're done, a few years later, there will always be someone who is interested in a cheap or even free boat, especially if it floats. So disposal normally should not an issue.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Where do you keep your boat island time? Winthrop? East Bos? $600 for the season is a steal, and $180 is way better! I think BHSC ran about $4k when I looked at it last ...


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Salem Harbor. But last 2 years they have a waiting list for the moorings. But it is still not expensive as the harbormaster discourages price gouging and will only let you rent an unused mooring once and then at your cost, i.e. the renter will pay directly all costs. After that it's "use it or lose it" i.e. if they revoke the permit for non use you can either pick up your hardware and move it somewhere else or sell the hardware to the guy next in line but that is allowed only after inspection and certification by the mooring company. But suprisingly our mooring company is run by very nice people and they also don't gouge price wise and will let you sell a used mooring if it's in good shape w/o requiring the buyer to get a brand new one. So these days the issue is not the cost so much but the waiting time for a mooring.

PM me if you need details on contacting the mooring guys to see if this will work for you.

Sailing wise North Shore/Salem Harbor is much better than downtown or So. Shore as the water seems cleaner, the depths are better than So. Shore and the shlep to the open ocean is very short, 15-20 mins max, compared up to an hour elsewhere. One big negative though is a longer drive there, up to an hour, unless you live nearby. But if you either live aboard or stay on the boat for days it is not as bad.

[autumnbreeze27]

The experience you get with the daysailor will save you money when you buy your liveaboard (assuming you aren't going to just sit at the dock)

You will have learned what you like and don't like about a boat.

If you make a mistake with a smaller boat, it costs less than with a bigger boat.

[Fluer de Mer]

My 2 cents…The important this is to get on the water sooner rather than later. We purchased a used J/24 on Craig’s List for $6K (including sails, spinnaker, outboard, and anchor) and sailed it for several years. We really enjoyed the boat and sailed it everywhere on the SF Bay. Besides the purchase price the only costs were the ~$300 monthly slip fee, occasional hull cleaning, bi-annual outboard maintenance, and 1 set of new lifelines. I’ve sailed around the world and raced for 25 years and I can say without hesitation that it is great to learn the wind/waves/weather by being close to the water – something a smaller boat is perfect for. Late last year we took the plunge and purchased a new Beneteau Oceanis 38 because we are now planning on doing more extensive coastal cruising and the focus is more on comfort…but the J boat was a great starter to get us back on the water.

[Curmudgeon]

I would spend the $$ you would have spent on the daysailer and spend it on a good two-week offshore cruising course. It's like trying to learn how to drive a ten-wheeler by driving a Honda Civic. The important skills don't translate.

It takes about a day to learn how to sail, but seamanship takes a lifetime.

Now if you want to buy a small, inexpensive cruising boat, like a Catalina 27 or something along those lines as a starter boat, that's a different story.

[CaptainSostre]

So.... the general census seems to be that buying it will provide great experience in doing DIY work and learning actual seamanship and boat ownerhip.
So... with this in mind I'm thinking of something trailerable. Like a 23' hunter or something similar. Just so it's cheap and convenient. I can avoid mooring fees and would be able to work on it while it's on the trailer. Does this seem like a good route to go?

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[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by CaptainSostre

It'd be me and my then wife (fiance right now) though I want to be able to solo sail for when she gets pregnant and has to take care of a little one. Which is kinda why I'm looking at option 1. Those kids come when least expected and prepared. Haha.

The boat we'd be looking at would be mid to high thirties. Maybe low forties.


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Ummm, if that is your "daysailor," what size are you looking at in the long run?!

We bought a small pocket cruiser (17.5', porta potti for a head, but comfy Vbert) to learn on. However, that was only three years ago and we have already upgraded to living aboard.

[CaptainSostre]

Well looking at it and the prices in my area... I'm think a daysailor is too pricey for such a short time frame of moving aboard. Ultimately I'm looking at 35+ size boats when living aboard.

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[Stumble]

Originally Posted by CaptainSostre

So.... the general census seems to be that buying it will provide great experience in doing DIY work and learning actual seamanship and boat ownerhip.
So... with this in mind I'm thinking of something trailerable. Like a 23' hunter or something similar. Just so it's cheap and convenient. I can avoid mooring fees and would be able to work on it while it's on the trailer. Does this seem like a good route to go?

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Better to buy a cheaper boat and pay for a slip. The idea of a boat on a trailer is very attractive, until you realize it takes an hour or more to put it in the water, and at least as much to get it back on the road. This means it is almost impossible to just go out for a hour and you wind up using it less and less over time because of this time lag.

Even keeping it on the trailer somewhere you can keep the mast up is bad. Better but not great.

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Better to buy a cheaper boat and pay for a slip. The idea of a boat on a trailer is very attractive, until you realize it takes an hour or more to put it in the water, and at least as much to get it back on the road. This means it is almost impossible to just go out for a hour and you wind up using it less and less over time because of this time lag.

Even keeping it on the trailer somewhere you can keep the mast up is bad. Better but not great.

It doesn't take us any longer to launch our mast up trailer sailor than it does do get all the sun covers off, check the engine fluids, run the jib sheets, etc. to be ready to go on the big boat. Even when it was mast down, it took just under an hour to rig. Not something you want to do to sail for an hour, but then, I don't know anyone who takes their sailboat out for an hour.

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Better to buy a cheaper boat and pay for a slip. The idea of a boat on a trailer is very attractive, until you realize it takes an hour or more to put it in the water, and at least as much to get it back on the road. This means it is almost impossible to just go out for a hour and you wind up using it less and less over time because of this time lag.

Even keeping it on the trailer somewhere you can keep the mast up is bad. Better but not great.

An Hour to luanch and retreive?
You must be hitting the sauce.
At my lake we routinly do this in 10 minutes.
Not Sunfish but everything from my 19' Mariner to 24'SA 6.9's
with a whole bunch of Catalina 22's in the middle.
The important thing is the need for a form of retractable keel and
a good trailer. Some guys have fixed keel boats and they require
trailer extensions to get them far enough into the water to float
but even that extra step only adds 5 minutes.
Boats are stored on land next to the ramps all with masts up and
you have to know how to back a trailer

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by CaptainSostre

So.... the general census seems to be that buying it will provide great experience in doing DIY work and learning actual seamanship and boat ownerhip.
So... with this in mind I'm thinking of something trailerable. Like a 23' hunter or something similar. Just so it's cheap and convenient. I can avoid mooring fees and would be able to work on it while it's on the trailer. Does this seem like a good route to go?

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How long is it going to take to raise the mast, launch it and get it ready to sail then break it down and haul it home??? If it's going to take hours each way would bet it will live in your backyard and get used very little. The reason you keep a boat in the water is so it's easy to go sailing. What about the cost of the large SUV or pick up to haul the boat around?? If the tow vehicle is also a daily driver, you have to feed it way more money than a small sedan just in gas, not counting acquisition cost. Would think long and hard about a trailerable if the idea is to actually go sailing on a regular basis.

The skills you'll pick up on a small boat will transfer very well to a larger boat. Navigation and seamanship for a small boat are nearly identical from a sailing dinghy to a 50' boat. Biggest difference between large and small boat is handling it in the tight confines of a marina where weight, length and inertia come into play. Controlling that is something that you'll have to learn by practicing

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

It doesn't take us any longer to launch our mast up trailer sailor than it does do get all the sun covers off, check the engine fluids, run the jib sheets, etc. to be ready to go on the big boat. Even when it was mast down, it took just under an hour to rig. Not something you want to do to sail for an hour, but then, I don't know anyone who takes their sailboat out for an hour.

I have a boat on a trailer 30 feet from a crane. It takes 20-30 minutes to get it ready to go sailing. The boat in the slip takes 5. Putting them away the one in the slip takes about 5 minutes and the one on a trailer takes at least 30 minutes. Not including rolling it's sails up which can take even longer, but they are racing sails and I accept that.

There is no reason btw to check the fluids on an engine every time it is cranked up. Just use your boat more. I don't check the oil on my car every day so why would I check the oil on my sailboat twice a week. Once a month is plenty.

I actually do take the 38' out for 30 minutes or an hour at a time. Since it only takes a few minutes to get ready and put away there is no reason not too. It takes longer to drive the three miles to the marina than it does to get ready to leave the slip.

As I mentioned the first time. A boat in a slip is the easiest to use, then on a trailer with the mast up, then a boat you have to de step the mast every time. For a new owner get something you can leave in the water and do so. And use the boat as much as possible.

[BoxerOne]

A day sailer and a live aboard are two different animals. If you want to get more confident sailing, then a day sailer is good. But single-handing is more about how the boat is configured and equipped than size. I have an easier time sailing my 42' solo than my friend's 30 footer due to placement of sheets, winches and halyards.

A live aboard is more about being a boat mechanic. Learning systems, understanding wiring, learning to take apart and repair things rather than buy new or used. For instance several of the Perko dome lights on my boat didn't work. New they are expensive and they are hard to find used (and not all that cheap). But troubleshooting the problem down to the switch followed by a little Internet research for the proper switch - $4.99 later problem solved.

If you buy a live aboard out of the blocks then every dollar you spend in learning maintenance is a dollar you are upgrading your boat. Find a boat that is structurally sound with a solid engine that is not used up, and go for the live aboard.

Have fun and be prepared for scraped knuckles, a sore back and bliss (maybe).