Bruce Roberts 35ft steel ketch

[Stratty]

I agree with MicHughV - an important part of offshore boating is emotional, which has something more than monetary value. I chose steel because of that sense of strength & stability. You may not add the value to the boat that you spend on repairs but you have the opportunity to modify the boat to better suit your own needs. The interior of my Roberts is only white vinyl on ply walls/ceiling with vinyl wood panel floors & wood trim but in a small space the white sets a mood of comfort - not confinement - & the steel a sense of security. I have only had the boat a week but already feel right at home - she feels like an old friend already.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Stratty

I agree with MicHughV - an important part of offshore boating is emotional, which has something more than monetary value. I chose steel because of that sense of strength & stability. You may not add the value to the boat that you spend on repairs but you have the opportunity to modify the boat to better suit your own needs. The interior of my Roberts is only white vinyl on ply walls/ceiling with vinyl wood panel floors & wood trim but in a small space the white sets a mood of comfort - not confinement - & the steel a sense of security. I have only had the boat a week but already feel right at home - she feels like an old friend already.

Aye, and when you have idiots around you in an anchorage, a steel boat helps in that they are more scared of you than you are of them Just one of the many bonuses.

[MicHughV]

yeah, earlier Roberts steel boats did not float on their lines correctly.
In part, I think this was because they were simply over designed, frames spaced too closely, etc.
And then there is the matter of hull plate thickness.
I could have built my boat, using 1/8" thick steel plate....about 3 mm for you metric folk, but was told by people, way more familiar with steel and welding, that thin plate, if not welded properly had a tendency to warp, buckle, etc....
For this reason, I opted to use 3/16" steel plate..almost 5 mm for the metric folk...but off course, this results in a much heavier boat, but much simpler to weld, which in my mind overruled the weight issue.

In hindsight, I could probably have eliminated several frames or gone lighter frame members...etc....or at the very least, use 1/8 plate for the deck, etc..but I didn't...it was 3/16" throughout....

nonetheless, I was careful to follow a very strict welding regime...a little here,....a little there..from left to right...right to left, etc..port side...starboard side, etc..

In the end, I was rewarded with a very uniform and fair hull requiring not an ounce of filler anywhere.

When launched, my boat was probably 2" (50 mm) lower in the water than Roberts had predicted. Once loaded, this increased to around 4-5"(100mm-125mm), but overall, this did not appear to adversely affect me in any way. I did have to raise the bootstripe which was a pain in the butt.

My boat was insulated. I had read horror stories about steel boat condensation, etc...so the inside of my hull was insulated with 1" (25 mm) foam panels down to the water line.

In the 15 odd years I had that boat, I never once had any kind of condensation.

Is it strong ? My early sailing years were notable in the things I hit or things that hit me. A lesser boat would have sunk, had it undergone my trial by fire.
Yes, steel is superbly strong....much, much, much stronger than fiberglass by a loooong shot.

For sure, I felt comfortably safe and secure on my boat, and in later years, I went thru' some horrendous weather at times, making me doubly grateful to have a steel hull uder my feet.

[Fore and Aft]

McHughV a well maintained steel yacht is stronger than a fibreglass yacht for sure. But I have put my surveyors hammer through a badly maintained steel hull and I am yet to do that on a fibreglass yacht no matter how neglected it was.
Cheers

[Michael Graham]

Years back I did Cape Town to Rio to Caribbean on a Roberts 53. We loved the boat except that she rolled dreadfully in calms - a three wave cycle that ended up at 45 degrees.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Michael Graham

Years back I did Cape Town to Rio to Caribbean on a Roberts 53. We loved the boat except that she rolled dreadfully in calms - a three wave cycle that ended up at 45 degrees.

I prevent roll by hanging an old tyre off the beam. It's enough to prevent her building up a rhythm and works fine.

[Wideocean7]

Once again all, thanks for taking the time to send feedback. A lot of what I see on this yacht is repairable without too much effort - only $ - which I'd factor into an offer if I went that far. The unknown is the condition of the hull beneath the spray-on foam. For what I plan, insulation is essential, but with rust rearing it's head at the waterline stringer, I'm nervous. Could be something major or something minor. I will ponder this and take on-board the walk-away comments some have made.

I am much more familiar with GRP boats but steel has been my current preference because (a) I don't want to sink after hitting one of the thousands of containers out there when sailing solo and (b) ice. I'm less concerned about other hard stuff to hit although I'm not saying that might not happen.

Thanks for the heads-up on the design ballast displacement ratio. I had a quick look at Bruce Roberts website and it does indicate around 35% which I am much more comfortable with. My comments on the 25% had been based on the sale details, which I should know far better than relying on.

Stratty - one more question if I may. Did you have this boat slipped and surveyed? Apparently there's a modified bulb keel which would be odd for this design.

Thanks again. Andy/Wideocean7

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Wideocean7

Once again all, thanks for taking the time to send feedback. A lot of what I see on this yacht is repairable without too much effort - only $ - which I'd factor into an offer if I went that far. The unknown is the condition of the hull beneath the spray-on foam. For what I plan, insulation is essential, but with rust rearing it's head at the waterline stringer, I'm nervous. Could be something major or something minor. I will ponder this and take on-board the walk-away comments some have made.

Assuming the spray on foam is above the waterline, then don't worry about it. If they did even a half decent job of preparing and painting the metal beneath, the foam will prevent rust. Even if there is a small amount of rust there, it will stop spreading as soon as it uses up its oxygen. If the foam is intact, leave it be, imo.

[MicHughV]

Some many years ago now, 1992 in fact, hurricane Andrew came ashore just south of Miami.
A week or so, after that hurricane passed, I went down there with a friend to view the damage, which was beyond belief.
Just south of Miami, is a large sailing community, called Dinner Key.
When we got there, (we were on a small runabout), there were about a dozen barges loaded with the remnants of 100's of sunk sailboats. The sailboats were stacked side by side like cordwood.

I still have photo's of this spectacle.

It was eye opening to see the hull damage, but for me, it was an opportunity to inspect hull thickness and the different materials a modern fiberglass of that period were made from.
I was stunned to see the relatively thin hulls, many with a foam core.

You can beat on a fiberglass hull with a survey hammer, but I guarantee you, if you were to beat on it with anything sharp, or even a regular hammer, you would puncture the hull. Beside beating on it with a sharp instrument, abrasion was another common sight there, where boats had obviously rubbed against a piling or another boat. Some boats had huge gashes in the hull several feet long. Others looked like they had been impaled by a piling or other mast or something.

Fire damage was yet another issue. A fiberglass hull will burn as if you had poured gasoline on it.

True, some older steel hulls have been badly corroded, of this there is no doubt, but generally easily fixable by welding in some new plate.

At the end of the day, there has never been any doubt in my mind, that a steel hull provides a margin of safety a fiberglass hull cannot.

But, as always...each to his own...

[Fore and Aft]

Captn_Black (I always picture Pugwash when I read that name) is right about the spray foam stopping the rust. I have been on a really rusty (inside and out) steel Roberts that had 30 year old sprayed foam on the topsides. The owner had removed some of the foam and the steel looked excellent. I was surprised since you aould see daylight through the bilge.
Cheers

[Captn_Black]

We were tied to a seawall during a storm in the Canary Islands. 4 meter significant wave height, and a few that were 6 meters, coming from 90 degrees to the wall. The only space for us was towards the seaward side of the wall. During the first night all our fenders were destroyed by us surging back and forth against the wall (we replaced them with car tyres the next day). I put out bits of wood and bundled rope to do my best to protect us from the wall, but I am 100% certain that we would have been split open if we had been GRP, instead we just had a few dents.

[oceanshoretiga]

Thank you for raising the question about the steel Roberts, Andy. The responses have been mixed but very useful, even to a two boat, long term steel yacht owner. My current Herreshoff is now about 39-40 years in service, 36 years in my care and love. The hull was built professionally in Sydney (about a dozen, I believe). Tiga is heavy but not a slug when the wind blows. Very sea kindly round bilge as per Herreshoff's 1940s design.

In my experience, the period of building is quite important as treatment systems changed as paints and knowledge evolved. The original paint, including zinc primers following sandblasting, is still intact above the water line and throughout the interior. Today, builders would put more stainless steel fittings on deck to avoid those nasty little places I now am faced with. Tiga's hull was sandblasted inside and out when being built and I have only three internal concerns, two of them in occasionally wet bilges and one in the double bottom water tanks. All of these are below the water line (as are the bunks, sink, etc., in this design. As an early build, Tiga does not have a spray tan, oops, spray foam inside. She is insulated down to the water line with poly foam (a fire concern).

For rust treatment, I use a penetrating system (Xtrol, made in Queensland), good primers and single pack what used to be called chlorinated rubber (as per original).

I wanted steel from when I hitchhiked through the Pacific in 1978 and still feel secure. Tiga is insured with Club Marine and they insured me for sailing offshore to Indonesia as well.

The downside? A 40 year old boat needs maintenance and a close watch. My rust problems are primarily above the deck level and I just have to manage them twice a year. Gets me down sometimes but then I go sailing and love the comfort and feeling of confidence in a wonderful traditional design built in a very strong material.

Again, thanks for asking the right questions so I could learn from the replies. Enjoy the sailing, cheers, Jim

[Wideocean7]

Thanks Jim. It's good to stimulate an informative debate (especially if it ends up with me buying a yacht!). Cheers Andy

[Sidney777]

A friend has had 35ft steel boat for 20yrs. Goderich. He welds, he replaces steel on hull. He likes it for offshore causing.
Paints with newest coatings. Searchs every inch inside for rust. (Old saying, rust never sleeps). I don't know about your design. But Roberts may have answers .

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Sidney777

A friend has had 35ft steel boat for 20yrs. Goderich. He welds, he replaces steel on hull. He likes it for offshore causing.
Paints with newest coatings. Searchs every inch inside for rust. (Old saying, rust never sleeps). I don't know about your design. But Roberts may have answers .

Yes, Bruce Roberts himself will answer to emails regarding vessels that were built with his designs. Send him an email if you are not sure about something.