Bruce Roberts 35ft steel ketch

[barnakiel]

Ballast ratio unlikely correct.


Same hulls built by many amateurs in Eastern Europe. Boats get as far as Antarctic Peninsula, Patagonia, Svalbard and NW passage.


So the design in itself is fine but how good this specific sample is hard to say from pictures. You want to touch it.


BTW For rough going or and in cold I would go for a MUCH MUCH better hard top. You want to remain perfectly dry and protected come hell or vertical freezing rain. Literally freezing.



Cheers,
b.

[Bundyon]

I live-aboard my Roberts designed steely, albeit totally different to yours. However, regardless, steel is steel, I love it. Built like the proverbial "Brickshitehouse". I do all my own maintenance and am totally fastidious about it. I would check on the spot rust on the inside and see how bad is it. Is it bubbled?, is it just a brown stain? Spot blasting with a small compressor and a small hand held sand blaster ( available from Bunninings or any tool shop) is easy and very effective. Once back to bare metal, then paint with a high quality primer followed by an epoxy paint. If it is just mild/stain, then rub it back with a sheet of grit paper, if it doesn't go back to bare metal & still has primer on it, then just paint epoxy over it. Steel boats sweat inside in high humidity. If the surfaces are prepared properly and plenty of ventilation, then this should not present a problem. Do the job right the first time and it will last for a very long time.
Good luck, she looks sweet.

[Stratty]

Greetings Wideocean7,
a few weeks ago I began to look for a yacht, in Brisbane, that might one day might carry me home to NZ. The boat pictured was the first boat I viewed & quickly walked away from. As you will now know the advertising & the real condition were miles apart. I must say I am new to yachts & steel construction but have been a super yacht cabinetmaker & had a boat maintenance business on Gold Coast a few years ago. I will relate my experience with the Roberts 36 steel ketch I just purchased last week off Caboolture River. 2 brokers spent a solid 2 weeks trying to get me insurance - with only 1 company offering a policy. IMPORTANT - excluding all claims arising from failure of mast & rigging. The insurance industry here is rapidly moving towards not covering steel hulls over 20 yrs nor rigging over 11 yrs - with annual rigging survey required after 7 yrs. The survey revealed heavy barnacle encrustation & when we tried to scrape them off the primer came with them - exposing bare metal.The cost to sand blast the hull will be $3300 - before reprime & antifoul. Admittedly my boat was built by an engineer - not a professional boatbuilder - so primer obviously not done correctly. This has also resulted in spot rusting on topsides - added to by careless use of a grinder at some time - sparks will melt deep into paint & gelcoat if f/glass. I believe the money spent on upgrading older boats would be better spent on buying a newer boat in better condition. It is my personal opinion that the visible maintenance needed on any boat is just the tip of the iceberg. On most of the boats I inspected the advertising was very different to the reality. Should you wish to gain some experience on such a design prior to purchase you would be welcome to sail with me - based at Horizon Shores. My Roberts will be on the hard from Tues for about 10 days.

Good luck,

[MicHughV]

I built a Roberts 38 ketch in steel, back in the late 70's and it was my home for about 15 years, during which time I covered 1,000's of miles on it.
The hard chined models do seem to heel quickly, but once that chine digs in, the boat will pretty much stay put there all day long.

I've attached a pic of my boat. As you can see, we are under full sail, hard on the wind, in about a 10-15 knot breeze. This shot was taken as I was leaving Daytona, Florida, from a Cessna, en route to Bermuda, hence the aerial view. When I got to Bermuda, the photo was handed to me.
What you see here, is pretty much how the boat sailed all the time. When the wind starts to get into the 15-20 knot range, I will put on smaller jib, but the heel angle stays pretty much constant.

Being a center cockpit, the cockpit will catch spray, and in the photo, I have the dodger down, but usually this was up most of the time.

Recently, I made contact with this boat again, now under the 3rd owner....must be all of 40 years old...still going strong !!! New owner wants to take it to the Arctic !!

I thought the boat sailed very well, it's not a racer, for sure, but a very solid sailor

If I had any one complaint about this boat, it would be that center cockpit, and had I to do it all over again, I would have built an aft cockpit version, but at the time I was very enamored by the aft cabin..hope this helps guide your decision.

[Wideocean7]

Thanks all for the very useful feedback.

Stratty - that you also looked at this boat is of great interest, even if we all have different opinions and budgets. Can I ask why you walked away so quickly? I know her stay-lock rigging is old, that she needs a good hull clean/sand blast/re-epoxy and some new windows. But she has a pretty new engine. Was it the hull internals that concerned you? I also saw the similar Roberts 35 on Yachthub - much newer is I recall. Congratulations on the purchase! Given that they are the same design, can I ask why you went for this one?

As an aside, she will be a live-aboard, with long-distance passages in a year or two.

Cheers Andy

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Yea, if I was in his position, I would do the best I can by hand, and seal all the panels above the waterline after with expanding foam after painting. I'm gradually replacing the current polyurethane foam sheet insulation with fire retardant fibreglass insulation board, sealing around the edge and bedding it in with expanding foam - no oxygen = no rust.

Below the waterline also do the best I can by hand, and just use a good heavy industrial zinc based primer. I know this isn't the best way to do it, and will probably only last a few years, but it is the way that many people do do it. There are plenty of guides for doing so online. In this situation I prefer to use alcohol prior to painting, as it won't damage the existing paint - if the paint doesn't come off with a grinder and wire brush, then it's probably good, no need to strip everything back to bare metal.

Theory is one thing, but the practical realities of being a liveaboard steel-hulled world cruiser is another.

Coal tar expoxy,
Use military grade spray or roll on insulation, non flammable.
It’s out there.
Mobile industrial coatings, Alabama

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by thruska

Coal tar expoxy,
Use military grade spray or roll on insulation, non flammable.
It’s out there.
Mobile industrial coatings, Alabama

Yea, I would like to, not available here in Cape Verde, neither is two component polyurethane, there's some really good primer though at only $10/liter. That will have to do for now.

[Stratty]

Hi Wideocean7,
a combination of overall condition - especially so many heavily rusted windows & leaking hatches and water damaged interior. I thought the interior was somewhat tight to walk around adding to which was the rigging may need attention - having been in the industry I just saw $$$ going fast. Also the true state of the boat was a little disappointing compared to the add - but I also noticed this with other enquiries I made.The boat I purchased has less than 50 hrs on the motor & the cleanest bilges of any boat I've seen - no diesel odours inside. The seller was honest & helpful & very patient. sails new in 2017. Roomy interior. Very good tender/outboard.Worth paying a few $ more for an all round better boat. I motored from Scarborough to Jumpinpin on Friday - 8hrs non stop. By some miracle no swell on Moreton Bay! She cruised very smoothly & when a nasty squall came up south of Peel Is & through Canaipa she was very smooth & stable. I have simply offered my opinion & personal thoughts and experience. Is the money needed for repairs going to add a fair value to the boat? Seek expert opinions & survey when you are confident of a purchase. Talk to a broker about insurance - it's getting difficult for steel hulls over 20 yrs. Good luck

[MicHughV]

I had the interior of my boat sandblasted and coated in coal-tar epoxy...the two part coal tar epoxy, although you can also get the one part coal tar epoxy.
In the 15 years I owned it, never had a lick of problem with interior rust..

I attach a pic of the boat as it is today, 40 years later. The new owner has gutted it and re-doing the interior to suit his proposed antarctica trip...

I've seen coal-tar epoxy painted directly over rusty steel....not flaky rust, but steel that has been cleaned with a wire brush. As long as you can ensure there is no air or moisture anywhere, it can provide good protection.

Rust is a funny thing....for instance...as an example....a 1" thick steel plate can throw off about 10" of rust. so seeing a rusty spot is not necessarily the end of the world.

You can buy a relatively inexpensive metal thickness gauge and test the metal thickness of the steel in any location you touch the sensor. Even steel plate that is half way rusted thru' is extremely strong.

Steel boats get a bad rap.....not always deservedly so. My stanchions were stainless steel welded to the hull with stainless steel welding rod on top of a small section of metal pipe. The only place I ever had surface rust was in that s/steel, pipe joint connection, not bad, but days of pounding into a head sea would cause some " staining" there...a nuisance more than anything else..and easily cleaned.

Finally, I had my deck surfaced in " deck tread" this is a composite material about 3/16" thick, which you can cut into shape and glue to the deck. This will prevent your deck surface from getting dinged should you drop anything on it. Although, my " deck tread" covered the entire deck, it really only needs to be in " high wear" locations...ie, bow...stern...etc..

Finally, I would like to add, that steel hull gave me a sense of security my later fiberglass boats never could.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Rust is a funny thing....for instance...as an example....a 1" thick steel plate can throw off about 10" of rust. so seeing a rusty spot is not necessarily the end of the world.

Yup, in rust, Fe2O3, the 2 iron (molar mass 52) is bonded to 3 oxygen (molar mass 24), so the weight of rust for a given amount of iron is also 1/3 more, although the density is much less so the volume is much more.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

My stanchions were stainless steel welded to the hull with stainless steel welding rod on top of a small section of metal pipe. The only place I ever had surface rust was in that s/steel, pipe joint connection, not bad, but days of pounding into a head sea would cause some " staining" there...a nuisance more than anything else..and easily cleaned.

I have aluminium stanchions and toe rails. They were fitted 10 years ago, and I can definitely say that it was a bad choice - they're corroding away pretty badly now. Something OP might want to consider if the same is true for the boat he is looking at. I'll be going stainless as soon as I can afford it.

[MicHughV]

ah well, if it's not rust it will be " something" else...

B.O.A.T...Bring On Another Thousand

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

ah well, if it's not rust it will be " something" else...

B.O.A.T...Bring On Another Thousand

Cheers, I'll drink to that! Though it'll be cheap box wine for me, and the best paint I can find for my ship

[Cheechako]

It's a sweet looking boat. According to Roberts it's more than 25% ballast. More like 38%
Was this one built with low ballast?
DISPL. 5,951 kg 13,120 lb
BALLAST 2,268 kg 5,000 lb

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It's a sweet looking boat. According to Roberts it's more than 25% ballast. More like 38%
Was this one built with low ballast?
DISPL. 5,951 kg 13,120 lb
BALLAST 2,268 kg 5,000 lb

If that is true it may be because they opted for thicker keel plates than the design specs.