bottom paint additive

[Manateeman]

Dear Skipper Stnick,
I suggest you consult an attorney familiar with environmental law.
Manatees are having a terrible year. Their population decline has the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service very concerned. They will increase their Enforcement efforts which specifically includes infractions, not just directly harmful to manatees, but to their habitat which is protected by Federal law as well.
Manatees are particularly fond of the light green “lettuce” which grows on the waterline of floats and yachts.
The Feds have reward funds available for the identification of anyone harassing a manatee or willfully degrading their habitat.
Would adding “horse wormer” to bottom paint be considered a serious violation of Federal Law? That is for the Federal courts to decide, but right now, it’s not a particularly good time for a test case. The last reward was $25,000 for the trump manatee artist in addition to the Federal funds.
My manatee crew figures that would keep them in pizza and beer for the summer.
I don’t use antifouling. Scuba and scraper gives me much needed exercise.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Bill O

As many abbreviate things for quicker reading, my CO abbreviation was not for carbon monoxide, but for Cuprous Oxide ...

I'm not a chemist, and not absolutely certain, so I'll ask.
Isn't cuprous oxide 'Cu2O'?

[Bill O]

Again Gord, you are correct!

Copper(II)oxide or cupric oxide is CuO while Copper (I) oxide or Cuprous oxide is Cu2O.
Good thing my specialty is medicinal chemistry w/an emphasis on natural products.

[GordMay]

Thanks for the concise clarification, Bill.
These chemical terms have always confused me.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Would adding “horse wormer” to bottom paint be considered a serious violation of Federal Law?

Probably not. I have researched this in the past when other kitchen sink chemists advertised that they knew how to improve the product. The bottom line is; if it legal for you to own it, it is legal for you to put in anti fouling paint as long as you do not intend to sell the modified paint.

[s/v Jedi]

A big advantage with the horse deworming paste Ivermectin, is that when you feel that Covid grabbing you, you can just lick the hull and be good to go

[motion30]

These black magic remedies come up every once in awhile ,the last one I heard was cayenne pepper. All the hundreds of thousands of dollars to paint manufacturers put in the research, a shame they didn't know they could use horse dewormer and cayenne pepper. They would have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by motion30

TAll the hundreds of thousands of dollars to paint manufacturers put in the research, a shame they didn't know they could use horse dewormer and cayenne pepper. They would have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars

Paint manufacturers have pumped hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars into R&D. Hundreds. Of. Millions.

[motion30]

I meant a voodoo priestess in Haiti that gave me a recipe for an additive in bottom paint. I am having trouble rounding up all the ingredients

[Manateeman]

Serious readers. My manatee crew thoroughly enjoyed this thread . The idea someone might actually begin to add drugs into bottom paint was...what did they say...comical disbelief. Why would anyone risk prosecution for a Federal crime...because while one might be able to obtain a nice selection of chemicals with a simple signature and a credit card, the use and disposal of drugs and toxins are subject to very strict legal guidelines.
Anyone can buy rat poison, you just can’t use it to get rid of your neighbors dog or your neighbor.
Horse wormer is for horses... not bottom paint.
To suggest otherwise is simply silly. Toxic chemicals are controlled substances.
How to use them, where to, how even to dispose of the containers...most of the legal uses are on the label. It states Horses not paint additive.
Where do you think this toxic substance will end up ? Do you think the worms in horses just don’t like the taste of this medicine?
How persistent is this toxin. Do you just not care about the ocean or the creatures in it? The writing is on the wall about copper...so are you suggesting amateurs should start experimenting and post on the forum? WOW.
There are substantial rewards for information on anyone who disposes toxic substances into the marine environment.
A lot of people have no issue with reporting suspicious marine activity. People who sell chemicals keep signature logs and video unusual sales. Anyone can remove a sample of your bottom paint and send it to USCG or US Fish and Wildlife Enforcement who will pay rewards upon conviction.
You might want to consider the downside of do it yourself experiments within a heavily regulated industry like drugs or chemicals.
Happy trails to you kimosabi.
Captain Mark and his “ drop a dime for pizza and beer money” manatee crew.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Serious readers. My manatee crew thoroughly enjoyed this thread . The idea someone might actually begin to add drugs into bottom paint was...what did they say...comical disbelief. Why would anyone risk prosecution for a Federal crime...because while one might be able to obtain a nice selection of chemicals with a simple signature and a credit card, the use and disposal of drugs and toxins are subject to very strict legal guidelines.
Anyone can buy rat poison, you just can’t use it to get rid of your neighbors dog or your neighbor.
Horse wormer is for horses... not bottom paint.
To suggest otherwise is simply silly. Toxic chemicals are controlled substances.
How to use them, where to, how even to dispose of the containers...most of the legal uses are on the label. It states Horses not paint additive.
Where do you think this toxic substance will end up ? Do you think the worms in horses just don’t like the taste of this medicine?

Lets just assume painting your bottom is the same as dumping the paint into the water (eventually)


So which is worse? copper or horse dewormer? Can I use less copper? Will the copper last longer because the dewormer prevents barnacles from binding and breaking the paint off?

How persistent is this toxin. Do you just not care about the ocean or the creatures in it?

It's a good question.

The writing is on the wall about copper...so are you suggesting amateurs should start experimenting and post on the forum? WOW.

Maybe if this is less bad than copper and we can move away from copper.

There are substantial rewards for information on anyone who disposes toxic substances into the marine environment.

It depends on which substances and how. For example, people are allowed to use internal combustion engines in boats even though the exhaust is toxic and when they pump the bilge oil is pumped into the harbor.

[Steve Xie]

When I sail in Southeast Asia I bought the antibarnacle online, a sort of bottom paint additives. Over time my over all experience is that it really works. We have recorded almost zero barnacle growth. My sailing boat is covered with Chugoku Antifouling and this year when lifting her out for the annual maintenance we concluded that there was no need to paint.
https://antibarnacle.com/

[tkeithlu]

This anti-barnacle additive is mouse milk. "Mouse milk" is a term that started amoung stock car racers in the 1950s to describe miracle additives that promised renewing your clapped out engine. STP is the best known today.

Notice that it is impossible to determine that the additive actually did anything. You add it to your bottom paint, leave it for a year or so, haul your boat, and notiice whether there are more or less barnacles than you expected. Less, and WOW! it worked. More and DAMN, I wasted $100 a year ago. The more or less might be for completely different reasons, such as the water salinity at your dock. In short, you had no control group and cannot determine the effect of the independent variable.

In addition, we are asked to believe that the bottom paint manufacturers missed this miracle means of making their products more effective. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars on research, and they missed this?

Finally, bottom paint is tricky. You must follow the directions very carefully, right down to relative humidity and temperature of the surface. It's expensive. Add stuff to it, and when you haul your boat you may find that it was not very effective because it peeled off several months ago.

Don't waste your money on scams or mindless "good authorities."