Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

[ghendoaus]

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

Ahoy Readers!


What’s the problem?

Hi Steadman most likely YW has done something like what is described in this blog
https://graphpaperpress.com/blog/pro...mage-stealing/

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by ghendoaus

Hi Steadman most likely YW has done something like what is described in this blog
https://graphpaperpress.com/blog/pro...mage-stealing/

Thanks for the link and answer.

I did borrow the photos from YW to describe the boats they have listed (a common thing) and did include a link to the YW ad too, to help CF members find the boat. That would also help YW.

With the image ‘protection’ change on YW, it means I will not be sharing those photos as I did before, which means less view of the broker’s ad, the owner’s boat, and YW site.

Given an assumed goal by the seller (broker and owner) to have an as large as possible audience see their boats, it would seem this new image protection may be limiting the views of the images that could lead a potential buyer to that site and that boat.

That is how I see it today. But, I can always change my mind.

[prof_mariner]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but "borrowing" copyrighted material from a website is illegal. I know lots of people do it, but if Yachtworld were ever to choose to they could shut down this forum and website pretty quickly.

[john61ct]

They would be very happy to allow any use that drives sales and additional traffic to their site.

But attempts to block stealing using technology makes it harder for everyone.

But nothing stops screenshots.

[Gafferfan]

Let’s not let this awesome thread die just because of imagery concerns.
All of us are capable of following a link to YW site or wherever.
I own my own business and my sites imagery is everywhere without my consent, sometimes it is beneficial and well other times you may be misrepresented.

Sure you may have copyright issues but at the end of the day YW will survive very well with their imagery here but I have to agree. It may be best to follow a link and avoid hassles.

That may not settle well for folks with limited bandwidth but that is just the way that happens to go sometimes. They already know the sacrifices IT wise they have to make already to be abroad.

Love this thread and as always thanks Steadman for your time to maintain it. You are the best!

[john61ct]

I find it very frustrating when an original post **that lacks sufficient detail** relies on a link that leads to a 404 later on.

I would encourage continuing to scrape pics, as long as the source is linked they won't mind.

The solutions are not difficult technically.

[john61ct]

Just thought of another way.

The Internet Archive site (aka Wayback Machine) has a mechanism to request a specific URL / page be mirrored there, and from then on is available forever in the original context.

If their page capture happens quickly enough, just link to that.

Assuming their capture method brings the pics along, it may be easier to scrape them from there.

Even though not required legally I would still link also to the original source's live ad, as a courtesy.

[prof_mariner]

Originally Posted by john61ct

They would be very happy to allow any use that drives sales and additional traffic to their site...

If that were the case they wouldn't have made it more difficult to steal their content. Note the copyright notice at the bottom of their website. "All rights reserved" means just that.

I'm not saying that it's not done, but it is illegal to steal content from a copyrighted website.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by john61ct

They would be very happy to allow any use that drives sales and additional traffic to their site.

Have you spoken to them directly to confirm this or is this simply your opinion?

Again.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by john61ct

They would be very happy to allow any use that drives sales and additional traffic to their site.

But attempts to block stealing using technology makes it harder for everyone.

But nothing stops screenshots.

I hate to say it but I believe you are posting misinformation. Big corporations like Corelogic have made it clear that they can sue people for using photos in MLS without the owner's consent & Yachtworld is MLS for boats. Although I'm an Appraiser I am a member of the Board of Realtors & I've recently had to sign an agreement related to the ownership of photos in MLS & the legal recourse involved when they are used without consent of the owner. We may think we are doing Yachtworld a favor by posting their photos without permission but I doubt Yachtworld agrees.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I hate to say it but I believe you are posting misinformation. Big corporations like Corelogic have made it clear that they can sue people for using photos in MLS without the owner's consent & Yachtworld is MLS for boats. Although I'm an Appraiser I am a member of the Board of Realtors & I've recently had to sign an agreement related to the ownership of photos in MLS & the legal recourse involved when they are used without consent of the owner. We may think we are doing Yachtworld a favor by posting their photos without permission but I doubt Yachtworld agrees.

Scout,

You and I usually see things and often think alike.

In this case, I have mixed feelings.

I generally respect the intellectual property of others, including other photographers. I never delete copyright watermarks, and am happy to give attribution when I know who made the photo or when it is identified, etc.

In this case, I think sharing the photos of a boat that is on the market for sale, and has been published on the internet, is a different kind of issue.

As I see it, the profiles I post here on CF are within the bounds of “Fair Use” in that the photos I share here (often copied from elsewhere on the net) are intended to educate and inform and to illustrate some discussion of suitable boats. “Fair Use” is a concept in copyright issues, and I think it applies here to the way these photos are used in these discussion threads.

From the US Copyright Office:
“Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of uses—such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research—as examples of activities that may qualify as fair use. ”
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

We discuss boats here, bringing to CF Member attention what is noteworthy.

My Point of View is that this thread (and a few others I started that show very good examples of boats) is intended to educate readers of CF about the various boat models and features. We also discuss boat designers, useful features, noticeable improvements, modifications, and exemplary condition.

I don’t make any money from sharing these images here and I don’t get paid by CF or brokers or owners or others to do so. I am simply trying to illustrate what I see as good boats, or the best among the many I see.

That is how I see it.

[Bleemus]

Guys, do you really need all the detail including photos on this thread? Find a boat you think is a good deal under 30k and post the link to it. We can judge it ourselves and discuss.

[john61ct]

Completely agree within Fair Use.

They are making it difficult against automated bulk scrapers that would create an aggregating / competing site.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Guys, do you really need all the detail including photos on this thread? Find a boat you think is a good deal under 30k and post the link to it. We can judge it ourselves and discuss.

You could do that.

But that is not the concept I had for this thread (and the others I started called “Illustrated Guide..”) because my intent was to SHOW on CF what the boats are like and to show representative examples that are very good. That showing is important.

I started this thread before the other threads, and chose a name that did not included “Illustrated” in the title. I would change the title if I could to match the others, but have decided to just let this one continue as it is titled.

My view is this: Photos of boats need to be shown here on CF.

Why?
Because once the boats on YW are sold, which can happen quickly in some cases, those photos disappear with the ad, once that boat is sold, if just a link to YW was posted here on CF.

When the photos are shared here, they are visible longer, indefinitely.

Therefore, a person new to cruising can look at this thread and learn something from the examples previously posted, even if those same boats are not for sale today.

I think that is a very important fundamental difference.

And that is why I don’t just post a link and nothing more.

[sailpower]

YW is a business.

It does not exist to inform/educate CF members.

It exists to generate leads for the brokers who pay to use it and who provide the content and photos.

Pretty much anyone interested in boats for sale already is aware of and uses YW.