Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

[td0tz]

Originally Posted by Near2KR

Take a look at this.

1977 Alden 44 Reduced to 30k

The good.

It's an Alden 44. Beautiful lines. Very useful below decks layout, and very nicely crafted by Tillotson-pearson.

The bad.

The teak decks failed, a while ago. 100% of the deck and core appears to need replacement. This has also caused water damage below. Cushions, headliner etc below all needs replacing.

But, it's an Alden 44.

But...it's a great example of a boat to avoid - avoid falling in lust over.
There is evidence of neglect in almost every photo. The rig hasn't been updated - i.e. winches/halyards still mast mounted. Original 42 y.o. motor has 3,000 hours.
Let's see, replace deck, core, and interior, standing rig... Gee, is that all?
Just what are you buying aside from a very old hull?
In short, a very old boat poorly cared for. Run, do not walk, run. Away.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by td0tz

But...it's a great example of a boat to avoid - avoid falling in lust over.
There is evidence of neglect in almost every photo. The rig hasn't been updated - i.e. winches/halyards still mast mounted. Original 42 y.o. motor has 3,000 hours.
Let's see, replace deck, core, and interior, standing rig... Gee, is that all?
Just what are you buying aside from a very old hull?
In short, a very old boat poorly cared for. Run, do not walk, run. Away.

I agree. For most people reading this thread, that is a boat to avoid, because the true cost may be much higher than the asking price.

I prefer to see boats posted in this thread that are "almost ready to go" or are something most buyers could use without significant further expense due to "project" status of the boat's condition. There are so many boats on the market, that it makes more sense to focus on boats in Good to Excellent Condition. Known problems that would require a lot of money and time or hassle make me pass on most boats. One exception I posted required a new engine, but on balance I thought it was a good find aside from that.

As I see it, that Alden in that condition, is analogous to a formerly nice, high end, expensive, possibly classic, car that has been neglected or had deferred maintenance, to the point that the cost to repair, replace, and refurbish (refit) would be exhorbitant and excessive for most people.

I once owned a BMW 750IL. It was never neglected, but was very expensive to maintain. The car had a very complex and high performance, high horsepower 12 cylinder engine, was "loaded" and looked very nice, except the engine was problematic. My trusted BMW mechanic expert told me (when the car had an engine failure) that the best thing to do was send it to the scrapyard, because fixing the engine would be cost prohibitive and unwise. This was after $12,000 in previous repairs. Lesson: There comes a point where one can "throw good money" at something that would best be avoided. Most call that a money pit.

[john61ct]

Yes, collectors' items for those looking for a resto project deserve their own thread.

To me, this one's for boats that are economically sensible for people whose focus is getting out sailing.

Might still take double the purchase price and a year part-time owner-hours to get there as it is, but 10x the price and hundreds of pro hours, just isn't reasonable for most?

[Steadman Uhlich]

DREW13440 earlier posted info on the Rhodes Swifsure 33 located in Baltimore that has asking Price of just $5,800. Here is a link to his post which contains good info on the boat.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2638154

Good addition to this thread Drew. Thanks for adding it to the mix.

I took a look at the ad, viewed all photos, read the description, and think that is a very nice looking boat that would make a very good starter boat for a couple who are on a linited budget.

It appears the owner has done some nice things to the boat, and I like the look of the interior.

At that asking price and apparent condition, it appears to be a very good find for the right buyer, who may want a smaller, shallow draft boat for day sailing, weekenders, and possibly cruising the Chesapeake gunkholing, ICW or to the Bahamas or Keys.

Here are a few more photos.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

DREW13440 earlier posted info on the Rhodes Swifsure 33 located in Baltimore that has asking Price of just $5,800. Here is a link to his post which contains good info on the boat.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2638154

Good addition to this thread Drew. Thanks for adding it to the mix.

I took a look at the ad, viewed all photos, read the description, and think that is a very nice looking boat that would make a very good starter boat for a couple who are on a linited budget.

It appears the owner has done some nice things to the boat, and I like the look of the interior.

At that asking price and apparent condition, it appears to be a very good find for the right buyer, who may want a smaller, shallow draft boat for day sailing, weekenders, and possibly cruising the Chesapeake gunkholing, ICW or to the Bahamas or Keys.

Here are a few more photos.

I agree, this looks like a really good deal although I have a feeling that cosmetically it will look a little worse in person. They have done some interesting upgrades in the galley but it looks like the center salon table is missing. I also noted that it looks like an aluminum mast with a wood boom. Kind of odd but could still be functional. I'm not a big fan of gas on boats but the original Atomic 4 is actually a pretty great motor. Replacement parts are easily available, they're easy to work on & cheaper to have rebuilt than a diesel. Plus they're quieter.

I think this is a great boat for 2 people or a couple with small children to cruise Florida & the Bahamas.

[Near2KR]

Originally Posted by td0tz

But...it's a great example of a boat to avoid - avoid falling in lust over.
There is evidence of neglect in almost every photo. The rig hasn't been updated - i.e. winches/halyards still mast mounted. Original 42 y.o. motor has 3,000 hours.
Let's see, replace deck, core, and interior, standing rig... Gee, is that all?
Just what are you buying aside from a very old hull?
In short, a very old boat poorly cared for. Run, do not walk, run. Away.

In defense of my post.

This is not a run of the mill cata/pear/hunt/ia/ bene/jeneaua/ boat. Obviously, this needs lots and lots of work. but there are people on this forum willing and and able to to take on such tasks, and this looks to my untrained eye to be one of those worthy candidates. It could really be a great oppotunity for someone looking to do more than just sail away. Sisters ships in good condition sell from 150- 200 k. If its not your cup of tea, just move on.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Near2KR

In defense of my post.

This is not a run of the mill cata/pear/hunt/ia/ bene/jeneaua/ boat. Obviously, this needs lots and lots of work. but there are people on this forum willing and and able to to take on such tasks, and this looks to my untrained eye to be one of those worthy candidates. It could really be a great oppotunity for someone looking to do more than just sail away. Sisters ships in good condition sell from 150- 200 k. If its not your cup of tea, just move on.

What follows is written in a truly friendly voice, with sole intent to help you and others.

I highlighted one sentence in your comment above to draw attention to a key point in this discussion of this particular boat, and as point to remember for anyone considering refitting a boat that has serious issues or needs or faults.

If sister ships in just "good" condition sell for $150-200k, then that should give anyone reason to pause (or run away) because that means this boat is likely to need $120k to $170k of work in order to bring it up to just comparable "good" condition.

In short, it is a seriously expensive project boat.
______________

Yesdterday I saw a 1991 66' foot steel boat that had sunk ("2 feet of water over the sole"). Asking Price just $12k. In my view it would be called "Toast" or "scrap." Not just because the boat had sat in salt water, and the interior would need to be taken out, and all electrical and major hardware replaced, but also because there was glaring evidence the hull was full of holes and rusting on the inside, hidden by the thick bottom paint, to apparently dangerous levels. It appeared to me the boat would need a new and complete bottom (rebuild), and I don't mean paint, I mean new steel plate. Lots of it. That is in addition to replacing the engine and other systems and gear damaged by salt water immersion.

So, while that boat may have a very low asking price ($12k) for a large steel boat built in 1997, the condition of the boat made it uneconomical to try to repair it to "good" condition.
____________

Two weeks ago I boarded a 100' steel hulled super-yacht sailboat built 30+ years ago. It was a beautifully finished sailboat that had cost millions to buy when new. It was donated to a non profit. They would likely sell it for about $150k. But, the boat had serious problems, because the hull was "not properly painted inside" and so the care taker said it was "rusting out from the inside." He estimated $1.5 Million to refit the boat and repair the hull. That is another serious project boat. Or is it just "scrap" now? (Rhetorical question)

[wallythacker]

Why don't we start a thread about sailboats priced OVER $30,000 that we think are grossly overvalued? As long we provide just a link to the ad we're not identifying the owner.

Here's an example;

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/bar...rig/1313564207

I personally went aboard this boat to discover a long list of serious problems.

The owner told me he bailed the snow melt out of boat out before I arrived, but the water in the bilges was right up to the sole, which was still soaked from being underwater for who knows how long.

Every port had plant growth on the screens when opened. Every piece of wallpaper, (I don't know the term) that was curled away from the liner had black mold on it. I'd say 50% of the wallpaper was lifted and moldy. At least half of the sole was spongy so I had to be cautious moving about.

Every cushion smelled like death, some were moldy, most of the galley cabinet interiors were moldy.

Many of the fittings lower in the boat were horribly corroded. (Immersion in salt?). Lots of electrical connections appeared to be salt corroded.

Walking around on the deck was a little scary. One section felt like I'd go through if my full weight was applied. Many sections were spongy. I won't even bother to address the rigging. It was a rusted nightmare.

Finally, the diesel was toast. No chance of it running without a full rebuild. Did I mention it needed a complete bottom job? Lol. Poor guy. Although he told me someone had offered him $26k.

When I heard that I wondered which of the two were dumber, the buyer offering so much for junk or the seller who turned him down.

[john61ct]

Whatever the price setpoint, I think such threads should be separated out between

A. boats that are likely to be relatively ready to safely go (weekend coastal) sailing, after spending say, not much more than half the purchase price

As opposed to

B. more "project boats" that may be precious examples of fine design or of historical interest, but will require **lots** of work to safely get back out on the water

Obviously these judgements may require some educated guesswork, but I think the distinction is a valuable one.

[td0tz]

Originally Posted by Near2KR

In defense of my post.

This is not a run of the mill cata/pear/hunt/ia/ bene/jeneaua/ boat. Obviously, this needs lots and lots of work. but there are people on this forum willing and and able to to take on such tasks, and this looks to my untrained eye to be one of those worthy candidates. It could really be a great oppotunity for someone looking to do more than just sail away. Sisters ships in good condition sell from 150- 200 k. If its not your cup of tea, just move on.

Yes, appreciated, and that's fine, this may be just the dream someone is looking for. Almost every post here generates (appropriate) 'what about the xxx' replies.
This thread was started, in part, to show off boats that were realistically "sail away" with only minor fitting out. My response, along with others, was to point out this boat may not fit that notion.
Minor meaning a small fraction of the purchase price, i.e. 20%.
Not a multiple of the purchase price, as is the case with all project boats.
There is a thread for cheap and project boats, and as suggested, maybe you could start one for "worthy classics needing rescue". We have rescue sites for pets, why not boats?

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by td0tz

...This thread was started, in part, to show off boats that were realistically "sail away" with only minor fitting out. My response, along with others, was to point out this boat may not fit that notion...

Its valid to offer advice or warnings on potential problems, but I did not see any evidence of your statement above...

Noteworthy, not necessarily seaworthy...

To quote from the OP:

"Who do I hope it will help?
There are some forum members (and some are new to sailing) who want to spend less than $30,000 and some members are looking at boats that are even less, with some less than $10,000. While we all recognize that the low priced boats are likely to be old, or in need of repair, there are many people who do want to buy a sailboat for cruising and they have limited budgets that will not allow them to purchase a more expensive or new boat."

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by wallythacker

Why don't we start a thread about sailboats priced OVER $30,000 that we think are grossly overvalued? As long we provide just a link to the ad we're not identifying the owner.

Here's an example;

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/bar...rig/1313564207

I personally went aboard this boat to discover a long list of serious problems.

The owner told me he bailed the snow melt out of boat out before I arrived, but the water in the bilges was right up to the sole, which was still soaked from being underwater for who knows how long.

Every port had plant growth on the screens when opened. Every piece of wallpaper, (I don't know the term) that was curled away from the liner had black mold on it. I'd say 50% of the wallpaper was lifted and moldy. At least half of the sole was spongy so I had to be cautious moving about.

Every cushion smelled like death, some were moldy, most of the galley cabinet interiors were moldy.

Many of the fittings lower in the boat were horribly corroded. (Immersion in salt?). Lots of electrical connections appeared to be salt corroded.

Walking around on the deck was a little scary. One section felt like I'd go through if my full weight was applied. Many sections were spongy. I won't even bother to address the rigging. It was a rusted nightmare.

Finally, the diesel was toast. No chance of it running without a full rebuild. Did I mention it needed a complete bottom job? Lol. Poor guy. Although he told me someone had offered him $26k.

When I heard that I wondered which of the two were dumber, the buyer offering so much for junk or the seller who turned him down.

While that could become an interesting thread to read (like the one focused on "Worst For Sale Photos" thread), I just don't have time to spend on it.

I prefer to spend my limited time focused on GOOD to GREAT boats that may help someone go sailing sooner rather than later.

If you think you have the time, you could start a thread on "Overpriced Boats" but I think I will just stay focused on positive stuff.

Hope that helps explain my position.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Its valid to offer advice or warnings on potential problems, but I did not see any evidence of your statement above...

Noteworthy, not necessarily seaworthy...

To quote from the OP:

"Who do I hope it will help?
There are some forum members (and some are new to sailing) who want to spend less than $30,000 and some members are looking at boats that are even less, with some less than $10,000. While we all recognize that the low priced boats are likely to be old, or in need of repair, there are many people who do want to buy a sailboat for cruising and they have limited budgets that will not allow them to purchase a more expensive or new boat."

Since I am the OP, I will respond, and my response is offered in a friendly tone of voice.

I don't mind being quoted.
Just remember I wrote that opening statement of purpose a few years ago, when I first started this discussion.

Since then, I have always tried to focus my time and attention on boats I consider "noteworthy" that fit the purpose of this thread, which to me is to help identify types and particular boats that are very likely suitable for most CF members who want to start cruising (usually locally or coastally).

Since I started the topic, I have looked at literally thousands of boats, and I simply pass over (ignore) those boats that require substantial work ("project boats" and salvage and derelict boats), as I have limited time and want to spend it posting more info on the better condition boats I see.

For common boats (Catalina 30) I may have looked at 20-30 boats before picking the ONE I thought worthy of special, noteworthy mention in this thread. I always look for the BEST available within the parameters of this thread topic (Less Than $30K). Actually, I do include boats listed at $30K too. Just not over that amount.

Terms Like "Seaworthy" Can Be Subjective
I don't think a "good condition" boat is necessarily "seaworthy" (if by using that term one expects to take it across an ocean or long distances offshore). But, I think of "seaworthy" (some might say "blue water") as a high standard, perhaps higher than most people or most brokers or sellers would say.

I don't think of all of these boats as "Blue Water" boats, and I suppose I could agree they are "seaworthy" if by that one means they float and can move under their own power. If I see a boat that has substantial issues (missing rudder, no engine, no mast) I simply don't mention them (with one or two exceptions).

Some of the boats I have shared in this thread could be properly equipped and in good condition and good build quality. Some could be used for trips to the Bahamas or Caribbean, or even long voyages. But that does not mean I would necessarily choose each or every one of them for a circumnavigation.

Each of the boats (with a few exceptions) I have posted appear to be good enough condition to sail away from the marina (what a broker may call "seaworthy") where they are bought, and most appear almost ready to ready for coastal or ICW cruising or bay sailing. I have seen many that I would happily own and sail if I were looking for such a boat.

I think most CF Members who view this thread are likely looking for a relatively low cost entry point to cruising or sailing. I hope this thread continues to provide them ideas and specific examples of boats that appear (via ads we can all see) to be in Good to Very Good condition.

I hope these statements help clarify my position.

[john61ct]

And let me express our collective gratitude for all your contributions, tremendous inspiration

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Whatever the price setpoint, I think such threads should be separated out between

A. boats that are likely to be relatively ready to safely go (weekend coastal) sailing, after spending say, not much more than half the purchase price

As opposed to

B. more "project boats" that may be precious examples of fine design or of historical interest, but will require **lots** of work to safely get back out on the water

Obviously these judgements may require some educated guesswork, but I think the distinction is a valuable one.

I agree.