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Old 19-11-2017, 10:28   #871
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
The owner said he had the entire top blisteres repaired and then painted with Awlgrip. He said this did not work and new blisters rapidly appeared. he then said it was a mistake to do that and in his opinion that the Awlgrip "sealed it up "and made it far worse.
Without hearing the whole story, the new blisters probably appeared because the entire topsides were not first coated with epoxy before painting. If they only repaired the blister spots, then the old resin was still exposed to the environment. A proper repair requires epoxy over the entire hull surface after spot repairs, and that is dependent upon a possible requirement to remove the entire top surface of old glass resin. It sounds like that was not done.
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Old 19-11-2017, 10:51   #872
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Without hearing the whole story, the new blisters probably appeared because the entire topsides were not first coated with epoxy before painting. If they only repaired the blister spots, then the old resin was still exposed to the environment. A proper repair requires epoxy over the entire hull surface after spot repairs, and that is dependent upon a possible requirement to remove the entire top surface of old glass resin. It sounds like that was not done.
Valiants that have blister problems have it throughout the laminate. They are not repairable and will always return if a repair is attempted. They are not just in the outer layer as with most blisters which are predominately cosmetic.
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Old 19-11-2017, 12:25   #873
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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The ol' boats are solid, but still get a survey at that price, I say, just to be sure there's no major secrets. Personally I would not consider a soft spot in the deck a deal breaker, they have a lot of glass. Good luck!
Yessir and thank you. There will be no offer to purchase that isn't contingent upon survey.

That said, I boarded her today (with the owner's permission) and am very impressed. Didn't get below, but the decks are in great shape and the vessel has clearly been loved and cared for. The cockpit lockers are super organized and clean enough to eat out of. That's a great sign, working with the seller to get her out for a sail this week. We shall see...
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Old 19-11-2017, 13:22   #874
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Yessir and thank you. There will be no offer to purchase that isn't contingent upon survey.

That said, I boarded her today (with the owner's permission) and am very impressed. Didn't get below, but the decks are in great shape and the vessel has clearly been loved and cared for. The cockpit lockers are super organized and clean enough to eat out of. That's a great sign, working with the seller to get her out for a sail this week. We shall see...
Keep us posted please! I have been looking at this boat for a while.
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Old 19-11-2017, 13:38   #875
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Valiants that have blister problems have it throughout the laminate. They are not repairable and will always return if a repair is attempted. They are not just in the outer layer as with most blisters which are predominately cosmetic.
It's true that the responsible chemical is throughout the laminate. However, a successful "permanent" repair is possible although a huge and potentially very expensive project.

In short, you have to take down the existing laminate far enough, and rebuild it adequately with new laminate, to prevent new blisters that form in the old laminate from migrating to the surface. You basically have to encapsulate the whole boat with enough new laminate to entomb the old laminate. I know of a few boats where this has been done and blisters have not returned. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's a function of the will and resources of the owner. It's hugely labor intensive so if you did it yourself it might be worth it depending on how you measure value.

Getting a $75-100k boat for $20-25k? Might be worth it. But the work involved if you want to actually eliminate future blisters is beyond epic. It would not be remotely cost effective to pay someone to do it.
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Old 19-11-2017, 15:06   #876
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

A boatbuilder/naval architect friend of mine (with 40+ years of active boat building experience) once explained to me that with a keel stepped older f/b boat one should mostly be concerned with chain plates integrity, keel bolts (if fin keeled) and thru-hulls. Everything else, according to him, does not affect the boat's integrity and will most likely outlive the owner. And that includes soft decks, various leaks (other then those affecting chain plates/bulkheads), blisters, etc. Of course it is different with the deck stepped masts.

Unless going rtw his usual advise to an older boat owner - just sail the darn thing and let your estate worry about the cosmetics and the value of the boat as is.
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Old 20-11-2017, 04:39   #877
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

This one might have been already listed here as Under 30k.

1984 Ouyang Boat Works Aloha 32 sailboat for sale in South Carolina

But now i instead of wanting 32 to 37, leaning towards 37 min.
Never made to Kemah to look at that PH, maybe Tues.

edit : just remembered have to go dentist this afternoon, may not make it tomorrow.
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Old 20-11-2017, 18:09   #878
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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This just made it to the brokerage, so pictures have not yet been posted, but for anyone looking for a VERY classic CCA sailing yacht on a budget, this may be one to seriously consider. Norbu Ketaka, a 1965 Phillip Rhodes 41 with upgrades, asking $17,000.

Grab Bag Sailboats

Here's a nice write up on the Rhodes 41 done by Water boats">Blue Water Boats in October 2015: The Pearson Rhodes 41 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
But he lifted the drawing from sailboatdata,com without asking.
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Old 21-11-2017, 08:56   #879
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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It's true that the responsible chemical is throughout the laminate. However, a successful "permanent" repair is possible although a huge and potentially very expensive project.

In short, you have to take down the existing laminate far enough, and rebuild it adequately with new laminate, to prevent new blisters that form in the old laminate from migrating to the surface. You basically have to encapsulate the whole boat with enough new laminate to entomb the old laminate. I know of a few boats where this has been done and blisters have not returned. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's a function of the will and resources of the owner. It's hugely labor intensive so if you did it yourself it might be worth it depending on how you measure value.

Getting a $75-100k boat for $20-25k? Might be worth it. But the work involved if you want to actually eliminate future blisters is beyond epic. It would not be remotely cost effective to pay someone to do it.
So aside from the 99% cosmetic ones, I have seen deep blisters in a Cheoy Lee, in the mat (they seem to spread more easily in mat vs roving, but that is only a guess) only a couple and not imo compromising any structural integrity since their hulls are so thick. Are you and mitiempo saying the blisters in the Valiants could be bad enough to compromise their hulls’ strength? That of course would be a different animal.
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Old 21-11-2017, 08:59   #880
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Btw, there’s a pretty good looking Alberg 37 in Seattle craigslist for $27,500. It doesn’t have a head, just an oak bucket, but personally I count that as an asset!
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Old 21-11-2017, 09:08   #881
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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So aside from the 99% cosmetic ones, I have seen deep blisters in a Cheoy Lee, in the mat (they seem to spread more easily in mat vs roving, but that is only a guess) only a couple and not imo compromising any structural integrity since their hulls are so thick. Are you and mitiempo saying the blisters in the Valiants could be bad enough to compromise their hulls’ strength? That of course would be a different animal.
I have seen uniflite boats that have blisters 2 to 3 inches in diameter with at least 1 or 2
in every sq foot topsides and 3/16" deep oozing foul liquid. This was in florida 25 years ago
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Old 21-11-2017, 10:04   #882
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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So aside from the 99% cosmetic ones, I have seen deep blisters in a Cheoy Lee, in the mat (they seem to spread more easily in mat vs roving, but that is only a guess) only a couple and not imo compromising any structural integrity since their hulls are so thick. Are you and mitiempo saying the blisters in the Valiants could be bad enough to compromise their hulls’ strength? That of course would be a different animal.
I don't have any direct experience with a blister Valiant but have followed the chatter in the owner community. There are owners who elected to do an extensive repair based on lost confidence in the boat. There are owners who have just chosen to live with the blisters and keep on sailing. And the experience of blister boat owners is not uniform; some boats have it bad, others not so bad. In some but not all cases this is a function of where the boat lives, given that blisters are a bigger problem on boats in the tropics.

There are a few Valiant experts who maintain that the issue with the blister boats was not the fire retardant additive but the supplier of the resin, which varied in quality throughout the oil crisis. This could explain the variation in blistering among these boats, if true.

I'm fairly certain that owners who chose to do an extensive "permanent" repair went into it a bit blind in that it was not clear how much laminate needed to be taken off and how much rebuilding needed to be done until the project was well underway. At least one owner said in retrospect they would not do it all over again based on their experience.

All that said the blister era boats are are now +35 years old and I've not heard of one falling apart or experiencing some catastrophic failure...or even a leak, and most of them have been used hard with +100k miles on them. If it was going to happen, it probably would have happened by now. So there is that.
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Old 21-11-2017, 10:18   #883
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Btw, there’s a pretty good looking Alberg 37 in Seattle craigslist for $27,500. It doesn’t have a head, just an oak bucket, but personally I count that as an asset!
Ass set? *groan* You just - had to, didn't you?
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Old 21-11-2017, 11:38   #884
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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I don't have any direct experience with a blister Valiant but have followed the chatter in the owner community. There are owners who elected to do an extensive repair based on lost confidence in the boat. There are owners who have just chosen to live with the blisters and keep on sailing. And the experience of blister boat owners is not uniform; some boats have it bad, others not so bad. In some but not all cases this is a function of where the boat lives, given that blisters are a bigger problem on boats in the tropics.

There are a few Valiant experts who maintain that the issue with the blister boats was not the fire retardant additive but the supplier of the resin, which varied in quality throughout the oil crisis. This could explain the variation in blistering among these boats, if true.

I'm fairly certain that owners who chose to do an extensive "permanent" repair went into it a bit blind in that it was not clear how much laminate needed to be taken off and how much rebuilding needed to be done until the project was well underway. At least one owner said in retrospect they would not do it all over again based on their experience.

All that said the blister era boats are are now +35 years old and I've not heard of one falling apart or experiencing some catastrophic failure...or even a leak, and most of them have been used hard with +100k miles on them. If it was going to happen, it probably would have happened by now. So there is that.
I don't know anything about Valiants, and not that much about sailing, but I do know about fire retardant caused blisters, as I've owned several Uniflite power boats thru the years. Uniflite switched to fire retardant resin in 76, same as Valiant , due to military requirements for boats supplied to the Navy, and immediately started have blister problems, until they switched back to regular resin in the early 80's. These are not water intrusion blisters, but rather a chemical reaction between the resin, matt lubricants, and other chemicals used in lay-up. Pop one and there is a chemical smell like the rotten eggs acid smell.
Bottom jobs on these boats, while VERY lucrative to yards, almost never cured the problem, because the chemical reaction continued inside the laminate. For the most part, these blisters were cosmetic only, as it was really the gelcoat that was blistering due to the chemical gassing pressure from underneath. Although my boat had a bottom job done before I bought it, every haul out I'd find and grind a couple hundred out, just thru the gelcoat, then seal, fair and paint. 1 day's work for me and a couple of fishing buddies. I only messed with the ones below the waterline, because if they popped, it could let water enter the laminate.
Above the WL, I just left them. I'm not perfect, and neither was my boat. I know a couple of folks that tried to fix the ones above the WL, with little success of long term fix. I know a guy who had his boat in the yard for a year, striped all the gel coat, heated the laminate, washed everything in acetone, fixed, then LP painted. I think he spent $60k, and it looked great for a few years, by year 4, 30% were back, though in different places.
These are cosmetic only. My view was that blisters or not, use and fish the $hit out of that boat and look past her imperfections. Like you said, none have sunk due to this problem.
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Old 25-11-2017, 07:31   #885
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Ranger 37 $28,000

Lovely lines on a Gary Mull designed IOR racer, somewhat (IMHO) converted to cruiser. Cruising drawbacks: still showing several non-self tailing cabin top winches (may be redundant), non-gimballed stove w/o oven.

Mentioning because of apparently exceptional condition, highly motivated seller, BIG Plus: New Yanmar, abundant ground tackle, good sails. Fresh water boat most of life.

Rangers were known to be fast boats. Like almost all GOB's the volume is less than the current run of cruiser, but at 37' surely adequate for 2 or 3.
Being conservative with sail choices (ie stick to the smaller gennys ) keeps them peaceful.



"Year 1974 Length 37' Beam 11'4' Draft 6' Location Florida Price $30,000 (on Yachtworld at $28,000)

Description: PRICE REDUCED on this lovingly maintained boat owned & cruised by the same couple since '81. Must be sold due to recent death of husband. Boat w/all contents!Great Lakes Boat w/over $34,000 in upgrades over past 3 yrs. Custom teak/cherry interior New maststep/core/reinforced bulkhead/& thru-hulls reinforced w/stainless plates when lvg Lk Erie for FL.Stays recently replaced. Insurance value off $55,000 Open to offers.

Equipment: NEW Yanmar 3YM30 (290 hrs)custom built cherry/teak ceiling, new refrigeration, upholstery, propane stove top & battery charger. Liferaft, EPIRB, handheld & boat mounted VHF's & GPS's, safety equip, auto-pilot, spotlight w/chargers, convertor, galley equip & bedding. Many miscell boat items included. 3 heavy anchors, lunch-hook, 550' of rode & 140' of high tensel chain. Main practically new, #'s 1, 2, & 3 genoas for Harken furler. Barlow winches in cockpit. Spinnaker, reaching pole & original tiller included."



Comments on the design from the hardcores at Sailing Anarchy:
Listing on sailboat data at $30K: 1974 Ranger 37' sailboat for sale in Florida
Also listed on yachtworld at $28K, with many more pictures.
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