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Old 26-11-2016, 03:45   #331
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

I'll second that. Great thread! Thanks, Steady!
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Old 26-11-2016, 07:28   #332
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe1111 View Post
Any insights or tips? Although a little smaller below deck than I'd like, she looks to be in great shape and I just messaged the seller.
The seller is a bright young man with lots of interests. P30's usually sell quite cheap, but this one has so many upgrades and new gear...thats what you are paying for. I can see he has spent thousands on new gear since he bought the boat from me, which is a good indication that he cared for it.

If you want more intimate info...PM me. I have to assume the seller will see this site.

My kids always found below to be quite dated...so "70's". This boat won't impress your friends at the dock...but it will impress YOU when you take it sailing.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...da-150816.html
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Old 26-11-2016, 08:28   #333
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Thanks! There's a lot that I like about this boat (gear, lines, price) but the seller sent more information this morning and the accommodations below are unfortunately too tight for my needs.
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Old 26-11-2016, 09:20   #334
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSaint View Post
What's your opinion on Bruce Roberts designs? I saw this 36 for sale for $29,900 in Texas. I see differing opinions, one being that it's slow. My son and I liked first looks and I'm looking for a liveaboard soon. Thanks!
Howdy!

What follows is writtten in a friendly tone of voice. I say that because some of what I may write may appear critical to some readers.

I took a look at that boat (BR Spray 36) online (via your link) in order to answer your question or request for opinions. I will offer an opinion, but you should look for others too.

First, I have not owned a Bruce Roberts Spray. So, my opinion is just an opinion and not based on my personal experience with that boat or that design.

I have not sailed on one yet, but would be happy to go for a sail on any (in case any CF member wants me to see how their boat sails).

I have considered buying one in the past, and even saw a Junk Rigged one for sale last year that caught my attention, and another for sale last year that looked special (more below). So, I am not "anti-Spray" by any means. But, it is unlikely I will buy one as I have my heart set on something else for my future.

I have mixed feelings about the BR SPRAY design. I mean that as "some good, some bad." In some aspects I respect the boats (some) and would not mind owning one (if it was exceptional). But, I also see some of the limitations and commonly seen faults.

My remarks below are focused on the BR Spray design as shown in typical boats built and listed online. Bruce Roberts has many designs and so my remarks about the Spray design should not be taken or applied to ALL of the BR designs or boats.

Since most are "home built" or DIY boats, the quality of the construction will vary by builder. So, one needs to look very carefully at the individual boats and not make any assumptions about quality or condition based on another Spray boat one may have seen. However, since there are many on the market (usually) it does allow one to make a comparison.

As I have looked at many (dozens) BR Spray boats online over the years, my impressions are these:

1. Most seem very crudely built and finished, usually in steel. Most appear "home built" (naturally as that was the intent of the BR designs). Some look so poorly built that I think they may be unsaleable and possibly unsailable too. In other words, some look awful, ugly, crude, rough, etc. Some are priced very low, for a reason. Some are unfinished. Some steel hulls may be questionable for their longevity if they have not been properly painted inside, etc.

2. Most look suitable for a "live aboard" boat, but many do not look ideal for extended cruising (but perhaps OK for extended motorsailing). Some exceptions exist (see more on that below).

3. Because the design has a famous name "Spray" (Joshua Slocum's boat) and because the boat design plans were available for many years and inexpensive, it is a upbiquitous design. You can see BR Spray boats all around the world. That does not necessarily mean they sailed around the world, though some may have.

I once had a question about the Spray design and wrote to Bruce Roberts. He answered my inquiry quickly and politely. I mention this because he has had a very succesful career marketing his plans. I learned about him decades ago. He is still in business, and still answers his mail. That can be a plus.

4. The BR Spray design is popular (many built) but that may be for reasons that have nothing to do with sailing performance. In short, the design's popularity may be due to low cost plans, a target market that wants to DIY home build a boat with simple skills (steel welding) and a market full of people who want something cheap.

5. I have never sailed a BR Spray, but would like to some day. So, I cannot speak about their sailing performance from personal experience. But, I have read many comments from sailors who say they are slow (look at the hull design, which is very broad) and "pigs" and will not move in light air (wind). Since the boats are usually steel hulls, and may have heavier than needed construction ("overbuilt") by home builders, and because they may be loaded with lots of heavy plywood and other stuff inside, they may be heavy and slow.

But, that may not matter to some sailors who simply want a big roomy boat to live in at a marina, and for whom motorsailing is the usual form of sailing anyway, and in that they would definitely NOT be alone. Motorsailing is not unusual, just look at all the charter mono boats and modern charter catamarans and weekend sailors that do it, so this boat design may be fine for that type of boating. If you are OK with running the engine, and would likely do that anyway, it should not matter too much if your boat does not move in 4 knots of wind.

While I like fast sailboats (see my CF Profile About Me page), I also like "slower" designs such as Colin Archer designs and so I can appreciate that going fast is not the only good reason for choosing a particular boat design.
_____________

Now for something more POSITIVE.

6. I looked at that boat you linked. It is a recent build (2000) and appears to be nicely finished inside and out. I like what they have done with the interior, which has a mix of varnished wood and some painted wood too. I happen to prefer a mix like that, with mostly white painted wood interiors (a more traditional look).

The engine space looks very clean.
I am not sure about that water heater, and perhaps someone else can comment on that as to whether it is suitable and looks secure etc.
The deck paint looks good.

I don't like the hull color, but that is just a personal taste thing. Something about that particular hue of blue just doesn't appeal to me, though I generally like blue hulled boats.

For a "live aboard" boat, that one looks like it would be comfortable to live on.

Is it worth $29,000?
That is entirely up to you. I have looked at many Spray boats online, and that one is one of the nicest I have seen, with an appealing interior, it is not too old (2000), and it appears to have been maintained in a clean condition. All those things are positives. I suppose if I were in your boatshoes, I would consider what else is on the market for $29,000 asking price and weigh my own plans for sailing too. The rest (the decision) is up to you.

7. My earlier comments above may seem negative about the Spray design. I want to make sure to include something positive about that design. Here it is: I have seen TWO different SPRAY replicas (both BR designs) that were very nice. One was for sale last year (sold) and looked outstanding. It was sold for about $20K or less and was a smaller version (as I recall 30'), and had sailed around the Caribbean. Perhaps some CF member bought it. It was white with what I recall was a light oak interior.

The other and the MOST outstanding BR Spray I have ever seen is owned and cruised extensively by a CF Member. As I recall, they were in Japan last year cruising around the Pacific. When I saw the interior (and plan) of their boat I was amazed and very impressed by what they have. Their boat looks great inside, and I like what I see outside too. Unfortunately, I tried to get the link to their blog from their CF Profile to share here, but for some reason the link does not work. So, I will just encourage you to send them a PM and ask if they have another blog link or some photos online you can see. They do participate in CF and I have seen photos that made a strong positive impression of what a Spray COULD look like if well built and finished well.

The most outstanding BR Spray I have ever seen is "SOBRAON."



Cruisers & Sailing Forums - View Profile: sobraon

I hope this helps you and others, and I hope I have not offended the many BR Spray owners out there.

And, as I mentioned up above, I would be happy to take a tour of a Spray or go for a sail on any by invitation from any CF members in the future (just send me a PM and tell me where).

I have tried to present a balanced and honest opinion here. YMMV.
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Old 26-11-2016, 17:49   #335
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

I just found this today. Crazy price for a Tayana 37 which is a bad sign but this is a great boat.
https://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/5891835761.html

37' Tayana sail boat for sale - $9500 (Ft Lauderdale
37' Tayana sail boat for sale, this is an excellent offshore passage maker with 6' 4" headroom or better throughout the boat. Sleeps 7, Yanmar 33HP diesel. Many electronics including autopilot, many extras. She does need TLC and repair work. Price negotiable or best reasonable offer.
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Old 26-11-2016, 19:12   #336
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
I just found this today. Crazy price for a Tayana 37 which is a bad sign but this is a great boat.
https://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/5891835761.html

37' Tayana sail boat for sale - $9500 (Ft Lauderdale
37' Tayana sail boat for sale, this is an excellent offshore passage maker with 6' 4" headroom or better throughout the boat. Sleeps 7, Yanmar 33HP diesel. Many electronics including autopilot, many extras. She does need TLC and repair work. Price negotiable or best reasonable offer.
I'm about to see this, so I'll post an update here. It's been in the water unattended for a long time (was abandoned by the prior owner).
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Old 26-11-2016, 19:40   #337
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Listed right at 30K: Here is a great ol' classic that went through a major refit (documented on the Columbia Owners Yahoo group) and is likely in excellent shape. I wish they had posted more shots and info on it on Craigslist because it really looks beautiful in the photos of the refit from the Columbia group:
columbia38
Morgan design. Built strong, molded in keel, deep keel version. Research them here:
COLUMBIA 38 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Columbia 38 Specifications
It recently was sailed up to AK. If you are in the PNW especially:
Columbia 38
Wish I could buy it!!
edit: I noticed listing changed
Columbia 38
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1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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Old 27-11-2016, 06:29   #338
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe1111 View Post
I'm about to see this, so I'll post an update here. It's been in the water unattended for a long time (was abandoned by the prior owner).
Good Luck!

But, even if you don't purchase, please do report back here with your observations and notes on that boat.
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Old 27-11-2016, 08:12   #339
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe1111 View Post
I'm about to see this, so I'll post an update here. It's been in the water unattended for a long time (was abandoned by the prior owner).
Just be careful with this one. I know it's a very tempting diamond in the rough & is certainly worth a look but it could be a mistake. For starters, I noticed it has teak decks so rotten deck coring is a strong possibility. Getting all the teak up & rebuilding/repairing the decks is a huge job. If the rigging, sails & engine also needs to be replaced I'd probably pass on this one. Looking forward to your update.
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Old 29-11-2016, 06:47   #340
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

...so many worthy peojects...! if life was just another 50 years longer...!
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:37   #341
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
Just be careful with this one. I know it's a very tempting diamond in the rough & is certainly worth a look but it could be a mistake. For starters, I noticed it has teak decks so rotten deck coring is a strong possibility. Getting all the teak up & rebuilding/repairing the decks is a huge job. If the rigging, sails & engine also needs to be replaced I'd probably pass on this one. Looking forward to your update.
Yeah, I walked away from a T37 about 6 years ago for those very reasons, could have got that one for about 12k, you can sink a ton of money and time if your not careful, if you think your going to save money by buying a cheaply priced boat, you need to take a hard, sober look at the real complete picture of what that boat needs and the cost involved, there are good deals out there though
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:04   #342
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Quote:
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I'm about to see this, so I'll post an update here. It's been in the water unattended for a long time (was abandoned by the prior owner).
I hope we get this update.
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:34   #343
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Kadey Krogen 38
____________

NOTE! There is another post about this boat model in a following post because this post includes twice as many photos (24 instead of 12 as is usual) Why? Because i like what I see in this boat design and want to share some of that.

____________
Lowest Price Boat Listed

1986
Asking Price = $30,000 . Lowest Price I have ever seen for this model boat.
Location = Charleston SC

New Listing (December 2, 2016)
1986 Kadey Krogen 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
____________

Comparable Boat Listing:

1992 Kadey Krogen 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Asking Price = $114,900
Location = Charleston SC
____________

Steady's Notes:

If any CF member has a Kadey Krogen 38, I would very much like to go for a sail on one. Why? It is a boat I admire. Please let me know via a PM and as I am traveling the USA ports in 2017 looking at boats, I may be in your area. I am not in the market to buy one this year, but I would like to sail on one, if you need crew or for a day sail.

The Kadey Krogen 38 Cutter is a boat I have admired for several reasons:

Shallow Draft with Dual Centerboards (minimum draft = 3' 2")

Flush Deck (or Raised Deck)
Design for maximum headroom inside saloon, and a nice deck for storing a hard dinghy or nesting dinghy (my preference).

Traditional styling (Decorative details such as trailboards on the bow, a bowsprit, etc.)

Large Cockpit and large Lazarette lockers for storing cruising gear.

Unusual interior layout with athwartship double in aft stateroom, nice for living on the hook.

Traditional styling in the interior, with wood and a comfortable looking salon and galley.

This design was admired by Robert Perry, a naval architect whose own designs have a wide following and whose judgement many respect. I don't always agree with his views, but I found his remarks about this boat design particularly interesting (see below).
_____________

NOTE: As in earlier posts, I am posting a mix of photos from a mix of boats to illustrate this model. There may be differences in boats from one year to another. The photos I post are to be used to get a general idea of the boat model and type. As with all boat buying: Caveat Emptor!
_____________

Sail Magazine Review (Best Review)
http://www.kadeykrogen.com/articles/...mayarticle.htm
_____________
Robert Perry Review of the Kadey Krogen 38
http://www.kadeykrogen.com/articles/...ftingtable.htm

"There is nothing better than a flush deck to set off a handsome hull."
"This is a very interesting design"

"James S. Krogen designed this yacht for himself and is presently having it built in Taiwan. Those of you who have followed yacht design over the years will be well acquainted with the work of Mr. Krogen. His designs have always been amongst my favorites."

"If this design did not have tandem centerboards I might worry about weather helm, but the boards will take care of that. The sail area to displacement ratio is generous at 17.5, indicating to me that Mr. Krogen likes to sail fast. The low aspect ratio configuration of this rig will make it quick on a reach, the one point of sail where the staysail can really do some work. The benefit of this rather large rig is that it will enable the boat to move well in light air without the need for genoas bigger than 130 percent. "
__________

Review on Jordan Yachts (a good review to read)
Kadey Krogen 38 Review: Tandem Centerboard Gunkholer - Waves Jordan Yacht Brokerage
______

Additional Specs, Equipment and Information:

Specs
Keel: Centerboard. (Dual Centerboards)

Dimensions
LOA: 38 ft 2 in
Beam: 12 ft 8 in
Minimum Draft: 3 ft 2 in
Maximum Draft: 6 ft 8 in
Displacement: 24000 lbs
Ballast: 7000 lbs

Engines
Total Power: 46 HP

Engine 1:
Engine Brand: Westerbeke
Engine Model: W46
Engine Type: Inboard
Engine/Fuel Type: Diesel
Engine Hours: 3623
Engine Power: 46 HP

Tanks
Fresh Water Tanks: (140 Gallons)
Fuel Tanks: (80 Gallons)
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:37   #344
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

A few more photos of the Krogen 38
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Old 03-12-2016, 13:47   #345
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

I find it 'interesting' that the wiring is neat and skookum, and the engine is cleaner than the galley or the head. So the phrase "you could eat off the engine" might be "you'd rather eat off the engine"! At least true before you hit the galley with a lot of bleach and elbow grease.
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