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Old 20-11-2021, 11:37   #3076
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

What is a boat worth? That is a personal decision. My own boat is old and anything I do to it will cost more than the boat is "worth." While I don't think you can eliminate financial concerns completely, if you are too concerned about what you are spending and if you'll get any of it back when you sell, then you probably should not shop among the older boats. I happen to really enjoy my old boat so the things I do for it along the way are worth it because they keep me sailing this particular boat. If I sold this boat I could probably find a boat in better condition for not much money. So if I was "smart" I'd ditch this boat and find another one. But really there is nothing financially "smart" about boat ownership in general.
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Old 22-11-2021, 02:16   #3077
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Not sure where you get these numbers but since you're a newbie, at least to this forum and maybe a first time boat hopeful, You might be just a little bit off. That and you really can't make generalizations like that. I'll use the last 3 boats I have restored and give real would examples. 1997...bought a 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37. Barely made it from Ventura, Ca. to Santa Cruz, Ca. and lost the transmission in doing so. Spent 2 years restoring it while using her. 95% work done on my own including deck recoring and rebuilding all running gear. Bought for $15K, put $7K in it and sold in 2000 for $42K. Profit, $22K. Took the profit and bought a house in Kailua-Kone, Hi. for $185K and sold that for $545K, 6 months before the collapse. Took some of that money, bought an Ingrid 38, fixed her up and flipped it and unfortunately broke even and the rest of the money went into Real Estate, basically insuring I never would have a mortgage again. Currently residing on my ranch here in Northern Ca.. 2011 bought a Hallberg-Rassy 35 for $15K with a non-running engine. Rebuilt the engine for $2500 and updated the interior and electronics for another $6K, sailed her down to the Sea of Cortez and sun tanned down there for 3 years and sold her there for $30K. You cannot put a price on the enjoyment down there.
My point is if you're smart and semi talented, knowledge of how to use tools and a lot of motivation, You can perpetuate this sort of dream.

I also know when to walk away from a project. The factors that ply into that of course ia my age vs. the size of the project...where will I work on the boat...is it close to home? I currently have my Westsail 28 3 ft. from my shop on the ranch here. Yes, that was planned.
Spot on. My first bought was an Oday 34. Bought it for $20k, had a great 9 months sailing it, sold it for $19k. Never spent a dollar on it.

Second boat was a steel ketch wreck. Bought for £13k, spent well over £100k on it over the course of 5 years, had some great times / learnt a lot, sold it for £45k.

Skipping the next boat which was written off, the latest boat is a 1998 30ft cat. Spent £21k, have put £13k into it, will easily see that money again.

Old boats are definitely worth it and if we donít go for another cat, weíll get an Oday 40, Spindrift 43, etc etc and do it up. Not a wreck, just something that needs a bit of repair here & there, and some updating. The first boat project always costs the most, both in unforeseen repairs, tools and learning. After that they get a lot cheaper...

N
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Old 22-11-2021, 06:51   #3078
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Old boats are definitely worth it and if we donít go for another cat, weíll get an Oday 40, Spindrift 43, etc etc and do it up. Not a wreck, just something that needs a bit of repair here & there, and some updating. The first boat project always costs the most, both in unforeseen repairs, tools and learning. After that they get a lot cheaper...

N
I hope to have the same experience as you.
I recently bought a 1977 Pearson P-35. It surveyed very well. Newer diesel and the decks had no delamination, which was a pleasant surprise for me.
Some updates will be needed, but hopefully nothing too major.
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Old 23-11-2021, 20:55   #3079
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Morgan 454 Nelson Marek

Morgan 454 Nelson Marek - $1,000 (Key West FL)

https://keys.craigslist.org/boa/d/ke...411804764.html
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Old 23-11-2021, 20:59   #3080
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1978 Islander Freeport 41í Ketch

1978 Islander Freeport 41í Ketch - $25,000 (Port Aransas TX)

<No Picture - Project Boat>


https://corpuschristi.craigslist.org...412005506.html
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Old 24-11-2021, 06:00   #3081
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Re: Morgan 454 Nelson Marek

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Morgan 454 Nelson Marek - $1,000 (Key West FL)

https://keys.craigslist.org/boa/d/ke...411804764.html
I was just in the USVIís and moored just next to this boats sister ship. Was decked out in cruising gear. Couldnít help but admire that real beauty. Hereís a a photo.
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Old 24-11-2021, 06:00   #3082
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Not sure where you get these numbers but since you're a newbie, at least to this forum and maybe a first time boat hopeful, You might be just a little bit off. That and you really can't make generalizations like that. I'll use the last 3 boats I have restored and give real would examples. 1997...bought a 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37. Barely made it from Ventura, Ca. to Santa Cruz, Ca. and lost the transmission in doing so. Spent 2 years restoring it while using her. 95% work done on my own including deck recoring and rebuilding all running gear. Bought for $15K, put $7K in it and sold in 2000 for $42K. Profit, $22K. Took the profit and bought a house in Kailua-Kone, Hi. for $185K and sold that for $545K, 6 months before the collapse. Took some of that money, bought an Ingrid 38, fixed her up and flipped it and unfortunately broke even and the rest of the money went into Real Estate, basically insuring I never would have a mortgage again. Currently residing on my ranch here in Northern Ca.. 2011 bought a Hallberg-Rassy 35 for $15K with a non-running engine. Rebuilt the engine for $2500 and updated the interior and electronics for another $6K, sailed her down to the Sea of Cortez and sun tanned down there for 3 years and sold her there for $30K. You cannot put a price on the enjoyment down there.
My point is if you're smart and semi talented, knowledge of how to use tools and a lot of motivation, You can perpetuate this sort of dream.

I also know when to walk away from a project. The factors that ply into that of course ia my age vs. the size of the project...where will I work on the boat...is it close to home? I currently have my Westsail 28 3 ft. from my shop on the ranch here. Yes, that was planned.
Intersting response. Thank you.
>Bought for $15K, put $7K in it and sold in 2000 for $42K.

I am unable to understand how materials for major projects in restorina boat that old in the US only came to $7k. You could spent that one electronic item like an autopilot, let alone chartplotter, guages, senders radios, fridge, engine parts, thru hull fittings, and on and on

>Rebuilt the engine for $2500 and updated the interior and electronics for another $6K,
Engine parts are cheaper in the US, but not that cheap. a gasket set is $600, water pump $300, engine mounts $800, starter motor $900. Not sure which engine a halberg has, but its gotta be something good (expensive parts)
$15k for HR (year) seems like a hell of deal so it must have needed a lot of work?

My numbers a re conservative based on the real world of boatyards, parts monopolies, and major retail vendors. Seen the cost of paint and antifoul recently? I am sure it can be done if you manage to avoid all the really expensive items i have just listed, but its not realistic to assert those numbers as representative. Some items you just gotta have
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Old 24-11-2021, 06:37   #3083
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Re: Morgan 454 Nelson Marek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoyeni View Post
I was just in the USVIís and moored just next to this boats sister ship. Was decked out in cruising gear. Couldnít help but admire that real beauty. Hereís a a photo.
Sometimes you need to have some imagination to envision what a boat could look like, rather than what the boat does look like.
This is how one finds a diamond in the rough. Of course, too many of us go too far and see every project boat as a potential beauty.
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Old 24-11-2021, 08:19   #3084
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Intersting response. Thank you.
>Bought for $15K, put $7K in it and sold in 2000 for $42K.

I am unable to understand how materials for major projects in restorina boat that old in the US only came to $7k. You could spent that one electronic item like an autopilot, let alone chartplotter, guages, senders radios, fridge, engine parts, thru hull fittings, and on and on
In 2000 a Furuno GP-31 GPS was around $200. F/G supplies to redo the decks were less than $500. Tiller Pilot <$300. I could go on but hopefully you get the picture.


>Rebuilt the engine for $2500 and updated the interior and electronics for another $6K,
Engine parts are cheaper in the US, but not that cheap. a gasket set is $600, water pump $300, engine mounts $800, starter motor $900. Not sure which engine a halberg has, but its gotta be something good (expensive parts) The engine at some point had been replaced this a Westerbeke W-46, which is a marinized Mitsubishi industrial engine. All bearings and gaskets well under $2K(from Mitsubishi) and a little outside labor. Here is an example of different prices, Westerbeke vs. Mitsubishi...Head Gasket from Westerbeke, $250. Complete gasket set from Mitsubishi (with Head Gasket, under $200. These are approximate prices as I remember them. I don't have reason to hold onto receipts from 2000.
$15k for HR (year) seems like a hell of deal so it must have needed a lot of work? It was an Estate boat with an engine that could not turn over. On the market today they are $35K-$50K. Not a real high dollar boat but one of good solid quality.

My numbers a re conservative based on the real world of boatyards, parts monopolies, and major retail vendors. Seen the cost of paint and antifoul recently? I am sure it can be done if you manage to avoid all the really expensive items i have just listed, but its not realistic to assert those numbers as representative. Some items you just gotta have
Please see the red in your quote for my response to your reasoning. I think your numbers are derived for a chair behind a computer. If you want to really own a boat and cannot afford to pay yard prices, you're soon going to be sidelined and one of those people who say "a boat is a hole in the water you through money into". I'm just guessing but you seem to be of the recent thinking that no boat can leave the dock unless it has $30K worth of inter-phased electronics.
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Old 24-11-2021, 08:43   #3085
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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Why would you critique this guys boat? Do you think this is useful or are you just being mean spirited? How would you feel if someone (unsolicited) wrote this about your boat?


You literally do the same thing
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Old 24-11-2021, 08:46   #3086
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Re: Morgan 454 Nelson Marek

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too many of us go too far and see every project boat as a potential beauty.

you mean they aren't?
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Old 24-11-2021, 08:48   #3087
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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You literally do the same thing
please show me when i have critiqued a members boat here.
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Old 24-11-2021, 08:49   #3088
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

There's something about the aesthetics of the stern of certain '80s boats that I really don't like. What do they even call a swept stern like this? In later boats that kept this design, they carved that space out and made a sugar-scoop. Looking at this Morgan, you have about 3' of unusable space that just adds to your dockage fees. It would also be a real pain to effectively attach something like a windvane, swim platform or davits and most of it is out of the water so it really doesn't add much to your LWL. I'm still drinking my coffee so maybe I'm totally off-base here, but I'd really like seeing more of a vertical stern that actually adds some storage or cockpit space.
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Old 24-11-2021, 09:08   #3089
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

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There's something about the aesthetics of the stern of certain '80s boats that I really don't like. What do they even call a swept stern like this? In later boats that kept this design, they carved that space out and made a sugar-scoop. Looking at this Morgan, you have about 3' of unusable space that just adds to your dockage fees. It would also be a real pain to effectively attach something like a windvane, swim platform or davits and most of it is out of the water so it really doesn't add much to your LWL. I'm still drinking my coffee so maybe I'm totally off-base here, but I'd really like seeing more of a vertical stern that actually adds some storage or cockpit space.
I feel the same about boats with bowsprits. I've owned 2. At $15 a foot for a slip, an 8ft. bowsprit is money well lost. I guess the transom thing comes down to trends.
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Old 24-11-2021, 11:03   #3090
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Re: Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Did I see this on here somewhere? No matter
1976 Downeaster Sailboat 32 FT - $11,000 (Pensacola)



Google the name, the couple had a blog for sometime, did a lot of cruising around N.E. and Canada. The PHRF ratings on these are about the same as the Westsail 32.
One reviewer who owned both boats over the years says this one doesn't hobbyhorse like his Westsail does. Anyway for the price it might be worth a real look.
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