Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

[westwinds]

Originally Posted by westwinds

...The feet and inches measurement is the headroom:

Island Packet 29 6' 4"
Aloha 34 6' 7"
Baba 30 6' 4"
Rawson 30 6' 3"
Island Packet 31 6' 3"
Mariner 31 6' 4"
Mariner 32 same as 31 except clipper bow 6' 4"
Pearson Vanguard 32 6' 4"
Hunter 34 6' 3"
CSY 33, also called CYGNET 33 6' 6"
CSY 37 6' 6"
Endeavour 37 6' 6"
C&C 38 MK II 6' 5"

Except for the Hunter 34, which is tender and not well made, the above are blue water. Here are some more sailboats with enough headroom. Some are foreign made, or only a few made, and I do not know if blue water:
Aphrodite 36 (German?) 6'5"
Catalina 36, fin, spade rudder 6' 5"
Columbia 35, Fin with rudder on skeg 6'2'-6'9"
Eastward Ho 31 6' 6"
Gulf 32 6' 6"
Liberty 38 6' 5"
LM 32 (Denmark) 6' 7"
Mirage 33 6' 5"
Mirage 35 6' 5"
Morgan 32 6' 6"
Morgan 38 6' 6"
Najad 371, Fin with rudder on skeg 6' 7"
Oceanis (Beneteau) 390 6' 5"
Pearson 31 6' 5"
Scanmar 35 6' 6"
Seafarer 37 6' 5"
Seidelmann 34 6' 7"
Siedelmann 37 6' 7"
Shannon 38 6' 5"
Slocum 37 6' 5"
Sunbeam 37 6' 8"
Vancouver 32 6' 6"

If you want to know more about the above sailboats, Google with the above name and put the word review in there. You can also go to sailboatdata.com for statistics and some parameters on how well these sailboats might handle.

[Pete7]

Hate to say this, but ditch the classic car, for the same reasons owning two boats at the same time doesn't work, one always gets neglected.

Pete

[westwinds]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Hate to say this, but ditch the classic car, for the same reasons owning two boats at the same time doesn't work, one always gets neglected.

Pete

YES! I've had a classic car myself.

[sailcruiser]

An option on that budget is to look at salvage from a hurricane and learn how to repair fiberglass, repair electrical and plumbing. Skills you'll need on a barebones budget.
SC


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[westwinds]

Any boat you buy should have a survey if you are really serious about the boat. A surveyor gives an impartial review. I have found it is really easy to get into "this is the boat for me" and not see what's there with defects when I go over the boat myself. Ask on cruisersforum for a good surveyor in your area as some do will a really poor job for you. It helps if you have more than one boat to look as it makes you compare and be more critical. And, do buy Inspecting the Aging Sailboat by Don Casey and Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats by Henry C. Mustin.

Also, go over the engine carefully with compression check and exhaust leak into cooling system. Get an engine with a heat exchanger. Sometimes the engines are direct saltwater cooled and corrosion is a problem. Learn about diesel engines. The gasoline flathead Atomic 4 is rather common in old boats and uses twice as much fuel as a diesel which is an issue if you want to motor a lot if the winds die.

[fstarocka]

gr8 info, yes ill def do a otor inspection. Ive worked quite a if with fibreglass, even if its repairing surfboards, ive done auto spray work, and have quite a few skills up my sleeves.

What ratio width/length wise would be a good balance between steadiness at sea and offer nice space inside?

I am not yet qulified to absorb all the specs and have an idea of how it affects sailing.

Really gr8 info here guys -

What are your thoughts on a keel that I can lift for shallows? Id really like to get a boat I can do this with as ive read many stories of ppl who cant get into the nooks - ill be doing mostly coastal cruising at first, ocean crossing will not be something id attempt soon, not until i have a few noches on my belt. I think by the time i start managing sail dynamics and getting the rudder to be as neutral as possible will be a milestone

any thoughts on centreboards options? ultimately id prob dry dock her and inspect all working parts.. im avoiding bolt on keels at ll cost - far as i can tell workmanship late 60's to early 80's was pretty good.

ill try find a fresh water boat from a non humid environment - florida is potentially bad for that ive read.. lots of fresh water boats around..

I guess all in all ill end up trying to be "all in" at $20k after repairs, gear etc - since i can do alot myself it would save alot of money..

[Cheechako]

a 36 footer for $10k will need 50K added to go cruising. You better start out in a 28-30 footer on your budget. You might get a Cape Dory 30 in your budget if you are willing to work on it.

[Benz]

So, many folks now have advised you to start smaller and figure out what sailing is about before you look for a boat to go offshore. You keep insisting on a shoal draft to explore reefs. Unfortunately boats with shoal draft usually don't have huge headroom--you have to put 6+feet of headroom SOMEWHERE, after all. No one has answered your repeated questions about beam/length ratio, mostly because there's a lot more to stability and seaworthyness than beam. A giant, shallow, beamy barge will be initially very stable, but will not sail well at all, and in a seaway will become uncomfortable sooner and dangerous sooner than a less beamy thing with some depth and weight alow.
I agree with everyone else that you should buy the first decent small thing you can find that still has standing headroom, go sail it a lot to wherever you can, and you'll learn a whole lot more about boat design and sailing that you ever will by reading. Not that I disparage reading and research, but with no experience whatsoever as a frame of reference, you're not going to be able to put that reading and research to the best use. We whose experience you're trying to tap did a lot of research and reading, maybe not always first nor enough, but we're giving advice not from what we have read but from what we have done. We bought 'starter boats' for cheap and sailed them to death and learned what we wanted the next boat to have and sailed THAT to death and have a list of what the next boat will have. We also would have liked to find a good, shallow draft, seaworthy, roomy, comfy, sturdy offshore boat for 10K, and are all telling you that it's not to be had--you'll have to compromise somewhere, take the plunge, and start the journey like we all did. It's not all bad, you'll learn a lot, and the company's pretty good along the way.
Best of luck,
Ben Zartman
zartmancruising.com

[fstarocka]

Is a 10.6 beam on a 33 a good balance between length/width?

33' US Yacht Sailboat

[fstarocka]

Benz I'm looking for ideas. My friend took 4 seasons to start snow boarding well because of a simple adjustment she had wrong. It took just a little amount of knowledge to fix yet she didn't know any better so excuse me for asking questions about boat design size ratios and the effects on sailing.. In fact u kind of pointed out the too wide beam issue and believe it or not actually helps people like myself which is why forums exist in the first place. If someone asks me for camshaft specs for a certain application telling that person to just go buy a car and drive it instead of reading/researching is not being very helpful in my opinion. I appreciate your input, Just thought I'd point that out.

[Benz]

No hard feelings Fstaroca, but your beam/length question is not so much asking "what are the camshaft specs for a 1996 Toyota Corolla?", but "what are the camshaft specs for a car?" You will immediately ask "what sort of car? how big is the motor? is it a truck or a sports coupe or a station wagon?" More information is needed than an appeal for camshaft data. So it is here. I'd like to say that sailing is as easy as classic cars or snowboarding, but it's a different kettle of fish. Don't be offended: you've just learned that boat design is a vast and murky world where the desirability of one feature depends on the existence or absence of others. Shoal draft beaminess is good--in a catboat, which is unlikely to have good headroom, and is not an offshore passagemaker. If you want "Eventually" to go offshore, you may have to forgo those "shallow reef anchorages," which, btw, are rare in your part of the world. You kind of need a different boat to get to where you need a different boat,

[westwinds]

Now to find sailboats, put the name of a sailboat, length and the two words for sale in Google. Copy and paste info from each hit and start calling. I include price, address of each site, location and a short description for each post. Also include phone number or email address.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by fstarocka

I am new to sailing and am looking at boats as my first purchase.

Any info much appreciated thanks!

Welcome to CF.

How new? How many times on the water and what boats?

If your prior experience is limited you might want to consider joining a local club and daysailing various charter boats for awhile. You'll spend a little time and money with nothing to show for it other than additional knowledge but it could be worth it in the long run.

[fstarocka]

bought " Spurrs Boatbook - Upgrading the cruising sailboat" - its incredibly easy to read and has a wealth of information, even some basic keel design and hull design characteristics..

I sailed out for a weekend with a friend and got a basic hang of it in minutes, tacking in a 10kt breeze.. i sailed for a few hours but it seemed pretty effortless - mind u in ok conditions. I dont think it would take long to learn the basics at least.. i will be looking in the 36-40ft range as i doubt 5ft would make a huge difference, and since I plan to do some coastal voyaging would hate to have to upgrade later.. since I believe in my budget a relationship and knowledge of ones boat is key to knowing her standing, the idea of working over things and making repairs is quite an asset as an owner to be, so id rather settle on something pretty sizeable right off the bat and work at getting her more and more seaworthy over time. At least that would give me some peace of mind instead of redoing the process..

Seems racer keels are not as flat, and wide hulls with shallower keels are a problem.. there is a nice sketch depicting a fine balance in the book - really interesting -even if its just basics - im pretty sure its quite applicable..




I will get my car ready for selling (few tiny fixes) and see whats out there. There was a 70 bruce King 33 (if i remember correctly) on ebay recently - live aboard with solar and wind stuff installed. the price was 8k and looked decent enough (it wasnt sitting in a yard rotting).. something like that would be an ok start - im still exploring centreboard options ...

[westwinds]

Sailboats come in a great variety and each is a compromise. The size of a sailboat is approximately the cube of the length because when you increase the length, you also increase the beam and height of cabin. A 40 foot sailboat is about 2.4 times larger than a 30 foot sailboat. A dock queen is a different boat than a blue water one capable of surviving a hurricane. For that see the book by Lin and Larry Pardey, Storm Management. For fin keel sailboats, click on Survival Sailing here: http://www.bethandevans.com/articles.htm I like all the books by the Pardey's. For what a marine architect can tell you about the best boat for your criteria see The Nature of Boats: Insights and Esoterica for the Nautically Obsessed by Dave Gerr. His Boat Mechanical Systems Handbook and the Propeller Handbook are also worth having if you want to do your own work. Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems by Nigel Calder is my go to reference. He also has a book on diesel engines. Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual: Including Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair, Sailboat Refinishing by Don Casey is worth having. His This Old Boat is a classic, and I should add it to my library. I do have the rest of the books mentioned above. I will also take a look at Spurr's Guide to Upgrading Your Cruising Sailboat. I know this is quite a list; however, you need to educate yourself. You will also need some courses on sailing and for that, may I recommend The Royal Yachting Association? Sail cruising | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA