Boat Poll - Please Contribute Opinions

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Most people on a budget will be happiest with a newer production boat.

I've heard this statement before and I'm not sure what defines a happy boat owner but if you look at what is available I'm guessing it represents reasonably well what people own. If you search yachtworld what you find is varying percentages of boats where the production models are the largest percentages with Beneteau's as the dominate model but ultimately they don't make the majority. When added together it is nonproduction boats that make up a dominant majority of the boats. In the $100k to $150k their is aproximately 20% of the boats represented by the top 5 or 6 production models; Beneteau and Bavaria are first.

I think their may be a different type of person owning these yachts? Are they happier? I would be hard to beat the smile on my face when I'm sailing my Cooper 416!

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Let the flames begin!

My method is entirely scientific so don't even think about trying to refute it with your puny logic

[HHNTR111]

We've been very happy with our Cambria 46...fast, pretty, strong, comfortable at sea.

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by Bash

I suppose if I owned a Chrysler 22 located in Kansas City, a Hunter 50 or a Beneteau 50 would "do the trick" for me as well. Seriously, however, what does it mean, in your humble opinion, to claim that "both are more suited for cruising than offshore."

???

Wow, don't know what I did to deserve the slog from the first sentence of your reply, but I believe the OP was comparing a Hunter 50 to a Beneteau 50 and felt he would be safe, etc. sailing the Hunter. My reply was in reference to that remark, and yes, I feel a Beneteau 50 is just as safe as a Hunter, and as such would do the trick for me were I making the choice between the two of them. As far as the 50ft Beneteau and Hunter doing the trick for me personally, I wouldn't trade either of them for the Chrysler, it is much better suited to the small lake I sail on and it does the trick for me there.

Like anything else, a offshore boat is purely subjective, but to answer your question, I'll give you my reasons why I personally feel Hunters and Beneteaus are more suited to cruising than to offshore sailing:

1. Lack of handholds in the large open salons. While the salon area of these boats are wide and open, it gets pretty exiting trying to walk through the salon trying to get to the forward cabin(s).
2. The galley on both boats are not while I personally like for offshore sailing. i.e full length galleys on both boats and neither allow you to wedge yourself in while the boat is heeled to 20 degrees or being bounced around when things are getting lively.
3. While the heads are nice and perhaps even luxurious, without adding handholds you are in for a wild ride on the open ocean. Additionally, the heads in the forward cabins are almost useless in any kind of seas; unless you don't mind getting dropped 7ft every few seconds and wearing what you were leaving.
4. While I like the nice views from the salons, I do worry about big waves bashing in one of the windows.
5. Those walk around beds won't do for a sea berth, at least for me and several of the layouts (i.e. arm chairs instead of a settee) really don't allow for lee cloths or a sea berth set up.
6. I also was a bit put off by the jacuzzi tub in the Hunter, to me, that says tied up in a slip somewhere.
7. Not sure of where I stand on the ability of the newer boats to lower their transom to make a swim platform.

I am of the opinion that most Hunters and Beneteaus are sold at boat shows to and with cruisers in mind, not someone who is planning to round Cape Horn, etc. Since I don't believe the OP has a lot offshore experience, he might not know that there can be considerable work to setup a Hunter or Beneteau if one plans to do a lot of offshore sailing, hence my response.

[s/v Beth]

This is a topic with no real answer. I am happy with my Valient. If I was soloing, I probably would go with a BCC simply because smaller really is cheaper. But I like a couple of people to hang out with on the ocean, and the Valient 40 does the trick. It is seaworthy, it sails fast with good motion. I trust it. What more do you want?

[Sailcat]

Thanks, psk125. You offer some good points and I appreciate your comments. I am needing an offshore transpassage boat that has enough room so when I finally get to my destination, I can stretch out a little and cruise around a bit. The idea is cruising, but I must first get to my port safely and, ideally, in good time. I love all of the first group of real, honest, non-condo, boats. They are dreamy. On the same theme, I need a boat that can withstand "that crashing wave" that knocks out windows but not ports.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

Wow, don't know what I did to deserve the slog from the first sentence of your reply, but I believe the OP was comparing a Hunter 50 to a Beneteau 50 and felt he would be safe, etc. sailing the Hunter. My reply was in reference to that remark, and yes, I feel a Beneteau 50 is just as safe as a Hunter, and as such would do the trick for me were I making the choice between the two of them. As far as the 50ft Beneteau and Hunter doing the trick for me personally, I wouldn't trade either of them for the Chrysler, it is much better suited to the small lake I sail on and it does the trick for me there.

Like anything else, a offshore boat is purely subjective, but to answer your question, I'll give you my reasons why I personally feel Hunters and Beneteaus are more suited to cruising than to offshore sailing:

1. Lack of handholds in the large open salons. While the salon area of these boats are wide and open, it gets pretty exiting trying to walk through the salon trying to get to the forward cabin(s).
2. The galley on both boats are not while I personally like for offshore sailing. i.e full length galleys on both boats and neither allow you to wedge yourself in while the boat is heeled to 20 degrees or being bounced around when things are getting lively.
3. While the heads are nice and perhaps even luxurious, without adding handholds you are in for a wild ride on the open ocean. Additionally, the heads in the forward cabins are almost useless in any kind of seas; unless you don't mind getting dropped 7ft every few seconds and wearing what you were leaving.
4. While I like the nice views from the salons, I do worry about big waves bashing in one of the windows.
5. Those walk around beds won't do for a sea berth, at least for me and several of the layouts (i.e. arm chairs instead of a settee) really don't allow for lee cloths or a sea berth set up.
6. I also was a bit put off by the jacuzzi tub in the Hunter, to me, that says tied up in a slip somewhere.
7. Not sure of where I stand on the ability of the newer boats to lower their transom to make a swim platform.

I am of the opinion that most Hunters and Beneteaus are sold at boat shows to and with cruisers in mind, not someone who is planning to round Cape Horn, etc. Since I don't believe the OP has a lot offshore experience, he might not know that there can be considerable work to setup a Hunter or Beneteau if one plans to do a lot of offshore sailing, hence my response.

I think there may be a problem of definition here, maybe not the only problem but certainly a contributing one.

Your usage of the terms 'Cruiser' and 'Offshore' could be causing confusion.
You use them as different types of sailing, whereas I think I'm not alone in using 'Cruiser' as an encompassing term that includes someone who sails far and wide, ocean passages as well as coastal... ie includes plenty of 'Offshore' sailing.
The word cruiser also includes sailors in your narrower definition of coastal cruising, but isn't limited to them.

Maybe just 'coastal' and 'offshore' would more clearly define the differences you're referring to.

[Sailcat]

HHNTR111
I just looked at the Cambria 46 at Yachtworld. I like it and I'll see if I can locate one this weekend to board. Thanks for the comment!

[Amapola]

Prefer Tayana which is not on your list. Choy Lee or Hunter is next favorite.

[Sailcat]

VirtualVagabone, et al.

"4. While I like the nice views from the salons, I do worry about big waves bashing in one of the windows."

Your comment is exactly why I posted my question. While I like the cheap cost of the roomy roomy production cruisers so popular with the chartering trade, how practical are they, honestly, for crossing the Atlantic in November. I know and understand lots have made the voyage in plenty of Beneteaux (:O)), Dufour, Catalinas, etc. But would you, of those in the group who have experienced passages in less than favorable seas, feel safe in a boat under gale force winds and high seas. Would you be able to catch any sleep under autopilot, knowing that the construction might be compromised.
That's all I'm asking. Can I buy a 2006 46' fiberglass, twin helm, deck stepped masted, fractional sloop, with a swim platfoarm and space for a washer and dryer for <$200K and laugh at the 12' seas knowing I was safe. I'm inclined to think "No." I've been at sea in bad condiitons but only for overnight trips. But I got a taste of fear I will never ever forget. While I'm ready for anything the sea has in store, I want to be smart about what i'm on.
I'm asking, what would it be like, alone, with a monitor to steer me, in the black of night in gale force winds? I want to know, as Vagabond observes, "While I like the nice views from the salons, I do worry about big waves bashing in one of the windows." Am I save in a Cambria? Island Packet, Bavaria? Do I have to hark back to the days of the old ketch, like the awesome Shannon's, Formosa's, and Alden's. Where is the line to draw.
The decision is mine. But I won't make it alone. I have all of you generous deck mates to help guide me in the right direction.
Thanks
Sailcat

[hummingway]

Handholds can be added and large windows covered; any boat needs preparing for ocean crossing. Stuff has to get tied down and stowed against the worst possible scenario and before anyone writes off any manufacturer you should keep in mind that some of these guys build many models and have different boat yards.

[HHNTR111]

Sailcat,

I think there's one for sale in Maine and a Cambria 44, as nice, in Newport.

ps, i'm not a broker...

[Sailcat]

HHNTR111-
Thank you for sharing it!
Cambria are beautiful boats.

[sailorMe]

try an irwin 52. just walk onto one and see the difference. they're big roomy and heavy. the center cockpit means you have great visibility and in rough weather you are atthe centre of motion- less rocking. they respond well to engine and sail well. their decks are big open and walkable (you'll spend a lot of time at anchor if your like most cruisers). I just went thru the same exercise...

[Sailcat]

Hi sailorMe!
I will. Irwin is on my list for research. I'm working on Hallberg rassy right now and should be wrapped up soon. I'm doing this alphabetically to keep some order. Guess who's in the batter's cage? Uncanny timing.

I'll have better luck getting aboard an irwin than I'll have with HR. Too bad, too. They look well built and seem to have happy owners from what I've found in research. If anyone knows of one in Florida, please let me know on this thread or on PM.

Thank you for your comments and suggestion, SailorMe!

[zeehag]

make sure you SAIL that irwin and see how you like handling it..i found them to be not fun to sail. roomy and awesome as liveaboards, but not fun to sail.... but could just be me. the one i sailed for a friend was a HUGE handful in a following sea and lots of work. was most unenjoyable to me.