boat comparisons opinion?

[schoolboy]

Hello,

1. Which of these boats would be the best bluewater capable boat for a couple, with occasional room for a guest or two?
- are any of these clearly not a good choice?

2. I find it VERY difficult to compare boats from different decades, equipment, prices......hoping for some insight here..... which boat on this list would you say is a BEST BUY for the price, which is worst? I deliberately put different kinds of boats in this list, so I can learn from your responses.

3. There is even one "FREE" boat that is a brand new empty hull, that is close to where I live, hoping for some way of comparing these......is the free boat going to cost too much to complete? How much would you say?

C&C 40 $27,000
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/75522

41' Island Trader 41 Center Cockpit Ketch $44,900
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/75171

1977 CSY Walk Over $35,000
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197.../#.W5SLZOhKgdU

1976 CSY 44 $200,000 Canadian
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...g#.W5SO3OhKgdU

39' Vagabond Pilot House $35,000
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/73758

Beneteau Oceanis 500 $75,000
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/71360

41' DE KLEER BROS FRASER 41 $76,500
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/70112

45' Whitby Boat Works
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/58707

$Free! 44.6' Wiggers Custom Yachts Taylor 45
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/49757

[Pete7]

Perhaps you could say where you are and what your sailing plans are. When you say "blue water capable", they are all capable of offshore sailing in the right season, so I wouldn't worry about asking for something "blue water capable" its a bit of misnomer.

Pete

[barnakiel]

It is difficult to compare because your price and size bracket is too large.


All other things equal, the smallest and most expensive boat has some promise of being the highest quality. Which counts only if you are sailing out of range of immediate shore facilities.


$/DSPL



Try to narrow down your search list to say 3 boats that actually meet your plan. Then ask again.


Cheers,
b.

[Suijin]

These boats are so different in terms of size and design philosophies that it’s impossible to compare them, and that does not even get into condition or price.

For example, the C&C has a race pedigree. It’s fast but at the expense of storage and outfitting and features that would be beneficial for distance cruising. The Whitby is at the other end...slower but more volume and built like a tank.

You need to create a “use case” and a list of requirements. How you’re going to use the boat, where, what your budget is and appetite for refitting. THEN look for boats that fit your needs.

From the list it looks like your process is nothing more than “Oh that looks nice!” LOL

BTW, the C&C disco lights in the cabin are both cool and appalling. :P

[TrentePieds]

Your introductory post indicates to me that you do not yet have a wealth of sailing experience. So perhaps we can help you to get off to the best possible start by telling you that "blue water capable" is the sort of marketing hype you will find in glossy magazines and InterNet advertisements for boats.

NO BOAT is "bluewater capable" UNLESS she has a competent skipper. Almost ANY boat is "blue water capable" IF and ONLY IF she has a competent skipper. It is the combination of boat and skipper that works the magic. One is dangerous UNLESS conjoined with the other!

Now, boat handling, to the stage where you can take any one of the cited boats out of your marina, go for a day sail, and bring her back into her slip again, I can teach you in a weekend. To be a skipper NO-ONE can teach you. That you gotta learn by yourself - and it takes a lifetime!

So, in short, any one of these cited boats (and a great many others) is/are POTENTIALLY "blue water capable". The question is: Are you?

We cannot know that from your post, and common decency dictates that at this point in the discussion, and until we see indications that you are, we assume that you are not. That assumption lays a solid foundation, if you will accept it, for our helping you to be come so. If you will accept the assumption, we can begin to lay out the syllabus - and it is extensive - for what you have to learn before you and your friend should even attempt to shove off for where the coconuts grow :-)!

You may very well find, as many have, that there is long term profit in "getting your feet wet" and learning the basics of skippering in a "coastal cruiser" of about 27 or 30 feet. You can pick up a perfectly adequate boat of that size for five grand and dispose of it when it has served it's purpose. The five grand is merely the tuition fee.

May your ambition be crowned with success

TrentePieds

[AiniA]

The Wiggers 45' is free which is intriguing but you would need to do a great deal of work to get this boat in shape for any sort of sailing. Good designer and good builder though.

[schoolboy]

Yes,
Perhaps I could simplify my request then,
can anyone guestimate, what it would cost to finish the unfinished, but new hull, being given away for free? Its not far from where I live
Thanks!

[TrentePieds]

If you can do all the work yourself, and you don't attribute a monetary value to your time, i.e. if you don't count lost wages, pension contributions, etc. you can get close by reckoning that the boat will cost the same as first quality beef, say $8.00/lb (displacement). For a 20 ton boat (40K lbs) say about 320K.

TrentePieds is 9K lbs displacement. A "five-tonner" in other words. Estimated construction cost at time of last survey (as per survey done in 2013) is Can$125K, call it US$100K.

Remember that the cost of the bare hull of a boat is only 5% - 10% of cost fully found and ready for sea.

"Project boats" are fool's errands. You can get a 45-footer well enough found to get you sailing in the spring of 2019 for US$30K or less.

TP

[schoolboy]

Fair enough. Over 300k.(I wonder what the original boat hull owner was thinking??)
(but you would have a new boat)

Looking at used boats as you suggest,
how does the CSY44 compare to a Corbin39 (assume same condition)?
Which one is the most offshore capable, best for ocean crossings?
These surely can be compared? Seem to both be older boats, that are built strongly. If YOU have to pick one, which would be your first choice of these 2??
Appreciate insights,
so I can learn
thx!

[907Juice]

There have been plenty of trans ocean passages in 30ft or less boats in less than stellar condition. Coming from a guy who only dreams of crossing oceans... my advice is to get a boat that is comfortable and seaworthy, then spend the rest of the money on taking classes, reading books, making weekend trips into week(s) Long trips, and upgrading as needed. Me? I’m on a 5-10year plan. Just buying my second boat and figuring out what I like.

As for those boats listed... they can be whatever you want them to be with the right time and money.

[laika]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Your introductory post indicates to me that you do not yet have a wealth of sailing experience. So perhaps we can help you to get off to the best possible start by telling you that "blue water capable" is the sort of marketing hype you will find in glossy magazines and InterNet advertisements for boats.

NO BOAT is "bluewater capable" UNLESS she has a competent skipper. Almost ANY boat is "blue water capable" IF and ONLY IF she has a competent skipper. It is the combination of boat and skipper that works the magic. One is dangerous UNLESS conjoined with the other!

Now, boat handling, to the stage where you can take any one of the cited boats out of your marina, go for a day sail, and bring her back into her slip again, I can teach you in a weekend. To be a skipper NO-ONE can teach you. That you gotta learn by yourself - and it takes a lifetime!

So, in short, any one of these cited boats (and a great many others) is/are POTENTIALLY "blue water capable". The question is: Are you?

We cannot know that from your post, and common decency dictates that at this point in the discussion, and until we see indications that you are, we assume that you are not. That assumption lays a solid foundation, if you will accept it, for our helping you to be come so. If you will accept the assumption, we can begin to lay out the syllabus - and it is extensive - for what you have to learn before you and your friend should even attempt to shove off for where the coconuts grow :-)!

You may very well find, as many have, that there is long term profit in "getting your feet wet" and learning the basics of skippering in a "coastal cruiser" of about 27 or 30 feet. You can pick up a perfectly adequate boat of that size for five grand and dispose of it when it has served it's purpose. The five grand is merely the tuition fee.

May your ambition be crowned with success

TrentePieds

+1

The best offshore capable boat is the one you know how to sail and can vouch for all square inches of. What really works for YOU in a boat is something you can only know with experience.

As an example, for us, we've got a supremely "bluewater capable" Vancouver 27 that fits our glamping lifestyle perfectly. Take aboard the occasional friend/couple. It takes us where we want for 3-4 months a year and costs us very little to store in the country we leave her.

There's a million ways to cruise and most boats will do what you want of them. You just have to know what you want of them. Not easy!

Sailing the right times of year and striving to maintain the luxury of being able to be patient waiting for wx windows makes the sailing easy. But you'll minimize the potential for human error in a given situation the better you are as a sailor (and the bigger/faster boat you have).

But, by n large, the trick is getting to know your boat and being able to account for the all the systems you have aboard. This is doubly true if you want to cruise more remote locales.

[Pizzazz]

Boats are typically designed for specific use cases, coastal cruiser, weekend racer, upwind performance or offshore passages. Ideally, you want to match the design goal to the use of the boat but you do not have to. My advice would be for most people to get a small, popular and well designed coastal cruiser to experiment with, even do a couple of long ocean passages. Then you would have a pretty clear idea what you want in your second boat and popular small boats sell quickly.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by schoolboy

Which one is the most offshore capable, best for ocean crossings?

A quick download might be of interest - https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Proofin...n++fatty+storm

Obviously one sailors opinion (almost all of with I agree with ) but might give some insight to what has been found to work and what doesn't, in general for bluewater as well as for heavy weather.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by schoolboy

Yes,
Perhaps I could simplify my request then,
can anyone guestimate, what it would cost to finish the unfinished, but new hull, being given away for free? Its not far from where I live
Thanks!

Take a similar NEW, finished boat price and add $$ or $$ depending on how much more expensive retail vs. wholesale prices of the needed material is. Chuck in your hourly at about 6x the boatyard's (as you are not a pro marine fitter).


A 32' basic boat that costs some 20k in Sweden second hand, costs roughly 300k in Holland, new. Same boat, only year build differs.



Look up Contessa 32 price new vs. old they are still made. Remember it will be 2 or 3x more expensive for you to build one up as it is to the yard.



Etc.


Financialy-wise: huge waste of money.


Time-wise: well, since you are 15, you have plenty of time to waste. I am nearing 50, so I just buy the toys I want. I do not build them anymore because then I simply do not know how many Mondays are out there for me.


Buying a hull and making up a boat NOT = sailing.


Are you interested in sailing it at all?


barnakiel