Bluewater - Seaworthy Ketch 50-60ft brand suggestion

[Harry-AU]

Hi

I have three questions related to Ketch sailboats

- While Ketch offers wider sail choices (and personally I found it easier to sail), why I dont see new modern (latest years) Ketch boats anymore??

- What are the best Bluewater Ketch brands to consider for 50-60ft (ideally 60ft) and which year for ocean passages such as Pacific Ocean and Atlantic crossings.

- Lastly, if Gulfstar 50 MKII or Gulfstar 60 MKII is considered bluewater OR suitable for ocean crossings. (This is to understand if the boat hull and design was for ocean condition or was targeted towards coastal or near coastal sailing)

Thanks in advance.

[psk125]

Furling and other sail-handling systems have made ketches less necessary. The second mast, sail, & rigging are expensive, take up space (often in the cockpit). The mizzen is not helpful upwind, and setting/dousing the additional downwind sails add to the work for the crew (you).

A Hinckley Sou'west 59 might be a nice ketch to consider.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...owse%20listing

[HankOnthewater]

Hi Harry
Have you seen this recent thread? Lots of opinions about rigging.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ch-211685.html
A strange thing though, these ketches. Many of the cruisers (on the mentioned thread) said to be favouring rigs with 2 masts (maybe because that is what they had?), but the only manufacturer that was still building ketches (that to my knowledge was Amel), has now vacated that area and makes only sloops (or is the 64 model still available?). Maybe cruisers are not the ones that have 1.5 or more mil (euro or $) in their pockets.

Therefore better start looking at second hand boats for a ketch . The size range you are looking for gives you plenty of BIG boats, ie C&N 58, the mentioned Amels, Irwin 52, and in Australasia there are dozens of Roberts, Pugh, Boden and Ganley designs in that range. However not all the mentioned models are in the same built/performance/price category.

[TassieBloke]

Hi Harry,

I can't help you with the third question, but can provide some help on 1 & 2.

1. It's pretty much about price point. The vast amount of hulls built these days are for charter market or similar. The only way manufacturers can keep prices down is to standardise designs and layouts. psk125 has made some valid statements in how more modern furling and sail handling has reduced need for a flexible sail plan, meaning that the mizzen (and thus smaller main) allowed for that. The debate will rage about whether these modern systems are fail safe etc etc.

2. There are a number of makes, but there are ones who more qualified than I who will surely weigh in.

Just a comment to the size you indicate. 50-60ft is a lot of boat. You seem to be in AUS, and once you get to that size, Marina costs become very high, and limitation of choice. Is that a size you think is right, or because you know its right for you?

We have a 50ft ketch, and to be honest, I wouldn't want any bigger, because anytime you want to go out, you have to think of crew, docking, and the hassle increases. Unless it is a size that you have a specific reason for (such as 4 kids, and 2 dogs), you should perhaps rethink how big a boat you really need.

Cheers,

Bloke

[Harry-AU]

Hi

Thanks for the valuable replies, from monohull family Centre cockpit ketch is my preffered option. For the length, yes 50ft could be fine but I tend to buy one good boat that would last me a while. I intend to take crew and I think longer waterline would add to comfort in long distance passages especially in rough conditions.

I agree Marina fee could be expensive but its worth the trade off for longer waterline comfort, extra storage & living space. I will search on the brand names mentioned.

[Sojourner]

Look at the Amels, Super Maramu in particular. In that size, for serious cruising, I havent found anything that came close after you factor in price. After owning one for a year, I wouldn't trade her for anything of any size or age. One thing they also have going for them is that they do not lend themselves to being good charter boats AT ALL. Too many unique systems and the layout is not there to pack eight people in. So any you find will be owner-sailors, and that makes them better maintained IMHO than a similar age/size boat that has been chartered hard and flipped by the company.

[P3sailor]

Have to agree on the Amel Super Maramu. Can't say enough about the ease of sailing, engine compartment, plenty of storage, etc. Can be easily sailed by two and for the most part no need to leave the cockpit while underway. I'm sure there are other great boats out there but this is one great vessel, in my very humble opinion!

[SVTwilight]

When we were looking last year for a strong bluewater boat in that range we looked at Hylas, Amels, Tayanas, Hinckleys, Swans, Oysters and a few others.

A friend that Captain's Oysters has high respect for the Discovery 57. Probably his go to boat if he had the $$.

We looked at lots of Ketches, but as the sailing goes: You will own a Ketch, only once.

We ended up with a Tayana 51' FD-12, primarily because it was 100% refitted with almost zero hours and because it is really built for a bluewater couple, like an Amel. Lots of 55 and 60 ft boats we looked at really aren't suitable for a 50 something couple to manage, the Swan 57 comes to mind. Never would have guessed we would end up there, but couldn't be happier.

Super roomy, but no cavernous saloons, easy to manage cutter (sloop) rig, safe, comfortable, snug cockpit, copious tankage, great machinery access and very importantly the clipper bow rides well into rough seas as we quickly learned bringing her north in March. The canoe stern also gives a fabulous ride down wind, even with 30 knot winds and 11 ft (following) seas. Oh and yeah, important things most "bluewater" models seem to have forgotten lately: 8" bulwarks instead of skimpy toe rails; 1.25" SS stanchions, pulpit and pushpit; massive bow locker and lazarette for stowage; deep bilges, encapsulated fin keel, bridge deck, flush foredeck, full skeg hung rudder. All that and she still does a respectable 7-8 knots with her 42 ft waterline.

And she looks totally salty!

I don't recommend the boat model as much as I heartily recommend all the attributes I just listed. YMMV.

Enjoy the search!

[tankersteve]

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/48586

This one is a real beauty, and for sale in my marina. The Dickerson 50 is a gorgeous, classic ketch design. This particular one I believe has been to South America and back.

Tankersteve

[Dazelem]

Hi
My Bowman 49 ketch built in 1987 (sometimes also known as a Holman Pye, and hence close similarity with Oyster design) has been trans Pacific and Atlantic with previous owners the last of which spent 3 years all over the Pacific bringing her from Los Angeles. He specifically searched this style of boat out for the sailing he did over a 4 year period.
She is set up for blue-water but I have not yet taken her offshore out of New Zealand but will in time, it is specifically what she was set up for.
As a center cockpit she is dry in most conditions and the downwind sailing is the only way to go..but of course that probably applies to any boat!!
David

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by Harry-AU

Hi

I have three questions related to Ketch sailboats

- While Ketch offers wider sail choices (and personally I found it easier to sail), why I dont see new modern (latest years) Ketch boats anymore??

- What are the best Bluewater Ketch brands to consider for 50-60ft (ideally 60ft) and which year for ocean passages such as Pacific Ocean and Atlantic crossings.

- Lastly, if Gulfstar 50 MKII or Gulfstar 60 MKII is considered bluewater OR suitable for ocean crossings. (This is to understand if the boat hull and design was for ocean condition or was targeted towards coastal or near coastal sailing)

Thanks in advance.

Harry. 14.9Mt is the magic number.
Over 14.9Mt you are in the next pricing bracket, particularly in the Mediterranean.
Two masts and two sets of rigging? Why?

[Nicholson58]

We have Roxy, a Camper & Nicholson 58 cutter rigged ketch, very capable. We have seen several Amels here in Le Marin, Martinique, French WI. They gave us boat envy.

In the Caribbean we see about 13 to 1/2 of the monohulls are ketches. They are always older boats. I would rate all of them quite capable. Some are better than others at various points of sail and sea state so I recommend you insist on a sea trial in crappy weather.

Photos Roxy

[BentP]

Agree on the Amels. If you dont have the budget for a Super Maramu, tou might consider the Mango.
There is a very nice oone for sale in Pittwater, and yes I am the owner
https://www.dbyboatsales.com.au/listing/amel-mango-52-2

[SofiaB]

Originally Posted by psk125

Furling and other sail-handling systems have made ketches less necessary. The second mast, sail, & rigging are expensive, take up space (often in the cockpit). The mizzen is not helpful upwind, and setting/dousing the additional downwind sails add to the work for the crew (you).

A Hinckley Sou'west 59 might be a nice ketch to consider.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...owse%20listing

I recently went to see this boat and it was beautiful. Appeared very well maintained and had been serviced at the factory every third year. Lots of single births and only a double in the owner aft cabin. Raised saloon, gimbled table, lifting keel were great features. Would be a great Caribbean boat!

[P3sailor]

Very nice boat, but one thing the Amel S.M. has over most others is the helm station is positioned on the port side of the cockpit leaving much of the cockpit unobstructed so crew and passengers don't interfere with the person on watch!