Bluewater 38-42' choices on a budget

[jalmberg]

Having gone through a similar process in the last 5 years, culminating in an Atlantic crossing last year, I'd say an ocean-going monohull in the 40-foot range is going to cost you about $100,000, at the end of the day.

We went the route you suggest, spending about half that amount on the boat, and then the other half on getting her up to our standards (replacing sails, rigging, batteries, chain pates, and lots of other things I've mercifully forgotten.

I'm pretty sure I would have saved money if I'd just bought a boat that someone else fixed up! But that's hindsight!

Good luck!

[Happ]

Originally Posted by sgwright

Hello all,

We've been looking several years for our next boat, with plans to sail from BC to Mexico, and eventually points beyond. Our current C&C 35mk2 is a great sailing boat, but a bit too small for extended cruising. We've sailed about 7000NM over the past 4 summers, including a 2800NM passage from Hawaii to BC, and are ready to head south. Here are some of the top criteria for our next boat, which we'd prefer to find somewhere between BC and Mexico.

1. Fin keel capable of good windward* AND light air ability, ie: no long/full keel or shoal draft or centreboard designs. *Able to point to ~40 AWA in 10kts of TWS and make ~5kts STW in calm seas.
2. Minimum of three seagoing berths, ie: two settees plus aft or quarterberth.
3. Head with shower, separate shower highly desirable.
4. Cutter or solent rigged sloop preferred, although I can add inner stay if necessary.
5. Decent tankage of at least 150L fuel, 300L water.
6. Private double aft cabin preferred.

Here are some of the top boats on our list, bearing in mind that some will only fit our budget in a somewhat "project" condition. Budget is ~50K USD, allowing for an additional 30-40K of upgrades to make her ready. My preference is to find a boat with solid bones in need of some upgrades so I can choose to fit her out to suit our needs. I am capable of doing all necessary work. I know some of these boats are out of reach, but one can dream.

The list (those with * are most likely to have candidates within budget)

*C&C Landfall 38, 39, 42, 43
Cheoy Lee 44
Cheoy Lee 38/41 (Pedrick)
Kelly Peterson 44/46
Mariner/Westsail 39
Moody 376
*Morgan 382/3/4
*Morgan 43/44/45 (45 has dubious seaberths)
Niagara 35/42
Norseman 447
Passport 37/40
Perry/Aloha 41
Hylas 44
*Tayana Vancouver 42 (aft or centre cockpit)
Valiant 40 (prefer to avoid the blister issue though)

Happy to hear from owners of any of the above, or similar designs that meet the criteria, although we have already excluded the following for various reasons:
Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, Pearson and similar coastal cruisers.
Fast Passage 39, Pacific Seacraft 37, Sceptre 41

Thanks!

A few years back I was looking for a live aboard boat. I was talking with the owner of a very reputable yard. He told me in no uncertain terms go with the smallest boat that meets your needs. I asked him about a 39’ boat i was looking at. He said get under that size. Reason is the price of everything jumps. Sails need to be made with thicker cloth. Auto pilots need to be more robust. You need more paint. The engine is bigger. Wiring is bigger and easily becomes more complicated. The list went on.

[Wolfhound]

If you go smaller there's much to be said for an Allied Seabreeze 35, a bronze one, although it doesn't check all your boxes. If you go with a 40', a sail on a Bermuda 40 may make you forget a few of those boxes.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/be...40-2-hinckley/

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by sgwright

Hello all,

We've been looking several years for our next boat, with plans to sail from BC to Mexico, and eventually points beyond. Our current C&C 35mk2 is a great sailing boat, but a bit too small for extended cruising. We've sailed about 7000NM over the past 4 summers, including a 2800NM passage from Hawaii to BC, and are ready to head south. Here are some of the top criteria for our next boat, which we'd prefer to find somewhere between BC and Mexico.

1. Fin keel capable of good windward* AND light air ability, ie: no long/full keel or shoal draft or centreboard designs. *Able to point to ~40 AWA in 10kts of TWS and make ~5kts STW in calm seas.
2. Minimum of three seagoing berths, ie: two settees plus aft or quarterberth.
3. Head with shower, separate shower highly desirable.
4. Cutter or solent rigged sloop preferred, although I can add inner stay if necessary.
5. Decent tankage of at least 150L fuel, 300L water.
6. Private double aft cabin preferred.

Here are some of the top boats on our list, bearing in mind that some will only fit our budget in a somewhat "project" condition. Budget is ~50K USD, allowing for an additional 30-40K of upgrades to make her ready. My preference is to find a boat with solid bones in need of some upgrades so I can choose to fit her out to suit our needs. I am capable of doing all necessary work. I know some of these boats are out of reach, but one can dream.

The list (those with * are most likely to have candidates within budget)

*C&C Landfall 38, 39, 42, 43
Cheoy Lee 44
Cheoy Lee 38/41 (Pedrick)
Kelly Peterson 44/46
Mariner/Westsail 39
Moody 376
*Morgan 382/3/4
*Morgan 43/44/45 (45 has dubious seaberths)
Niagara 35/42
Norseman 447
Passport 37/40
Perry/Aloha 41
Hylas 44
*Tayana Vancouver 42 (aft or centre cockpit)
Valiant 40 (prefer to avoid the blister issue though)

Happy to hear from owners of any of the above, or similar designs that meet the criteria, although we have already excluded the following for various reasons:
Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, Pearson and similar coastal cruisers.
Fast Passage 39, Pacific Seacraft 37, Sceptre 41

Thanks!

I have a 37' Dickerson Ketch. They are very reliable in the open seas and faster than many think a ketch would be. One of our members is selling a 41' version within your pricing: https://eastnc.craigslist.org/boa/d/...608581236.html

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sgwright

Hello all,

We've been looking several years for our next boat, with plans to sail from BC to Mexico, and eventually points beyond. Our current C&C 35mk2 is a great sailing boat, but a bit too small for extended cruising. We've sailed about 7000NM over the past 4 summers, including a 2800NM passage from Hawaii to BC, and are ready to head south. Here are some of the top criteria for our next boat, which we'd prefer to find somewhere between BC and Mexico.

1. Fin keel capable of good windward* AND light air ability, ie: no long/full keel or shoal draft or centreboard designs. *Able to point to ~40 AWA in 10kts of TWS and make ~5kts STW in calm seas.
2. Minimum of three seagoing berths, ie: two settees plus aft or quarterberth.
3. Head with shower, separate shower highly desirable.
4. Cutter or solent rigged sloop preferred, although I can add inner stay if necessary.
5. Decent tankage of at least 150L fuel, 300L water.
6. Private double aft cabin preferred.

Here are some of the top boats on our list, bearing in mind that some will only fit our budget in a somewhat "project" condition. Budget is ~50K USD, allowing for an additional 30-40K of upgrades to make her ready. My preference is to find a boat with solid bones in need of some upgrades so I can choose to fit her out to suit our needs. I am capable of doing all necessary work. I know some of these boats are out of reach, but one can dream.

The list (those with * are most likely to have candidates within budget)

*C&C Landfall 38, 39, 42, 43
Cheoy Lee 44
Cheoy Lee 38/41 (Pedrick)
Kelly Peterson 44/46
Mariner/Westsail 39
Moody 376
*Morgan 382/3/4
*Morgan 43/44/45 (45 has dubious seaberths)
Niagara 35/42
Norseman 447
Passport 37/40
Perry/Aloha 41
Hylas 44
*Tayana Vancouver 42 (aft or centre cockpit)
Valiant 40 (prefer to avoid the blister issue though)

Happy to hear from owners of any of the above, or similar designs that meet the criteria, although we have already excluded the following for various reasons:
Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, Pearson and similar coastal cruisers.
Fast Passage 39, Pacific Seacraft 37, Sceptre 41

Thanks!

When I spent five years doing my offshore (bluewater) boat search I built an Excel database of over 3500 boats in available rigging/keel variations, computed their ratios (SA/DISP, DISP/LWL, COMFORT, CAPSIZE, L/B) plus other features I wanted to AVOID, ie, v-drive, saildrive, bowsprit, bobstay, centerboard, nonlead keel, non FBG, teak decks, etc. I think you need to do somewhat the same. Then sort it for your ideal boat.

FWIW the Tayana Vancouver 42 has a long fin keel and is a true cutter, ie. the mast is further to the stern than a sloop.

Your experience appears to be in sloop rigged boats. You won't find cutters being able to tack as close to the wind as well as a sloop, but when it comes to handling in storms, you'll love that staysail and its hove-to ability.

Your tankage requirements are rather large. My boat has 2x75 fiberglass fuel and 2x100 s.s. fresh water and that's a lot. This requirement alone will remove many boats.

Definitely, for your price range, you should have a small handful of selectable boats to choose from and then it will depend on availability, location, condition, and price. It's all about the tradeoffs you are willing to accept.

Good Luck

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

Baltic 42DP

1. Performance - check
2. Sea berths - check (2x settees and pilot berth)
3. Separate shower - no
4. Cutter - need to add, if required
5. Tankage - check(ish) (170L of fuel and , 227L of water, per salboatdata)
6. Private aft cabin - check


Here's one in "project" condition (well within budget):
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...42-dp-8381625/

Here's one in cruising condition, just completed circumnavigation (somewhat above budget):
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...dp-42-8539963/

Both on the Left coast.




(Yes, a bunch of posts have gone missing.)

Thanks, I have been checking out this design along with other Baltics. The first one has teak decks that will need attention and is pretty spartan. Will have another look.

The second one is dreaming...

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by MJH

When I spent five years doing my offshore (bluewater) boat search I built an Excel database of over 3500 boats in available rigging/keel variations, computed their ratios plus other features I wanted to AVOID, ie, v-drive, saildrive, bowsprit, bobstay, CB, non FBG, teak decks, etc. I think you need to do somewhat the same. Then sort it for your ideal boat.

FWIW the Tayana Vancouver 42 has a long fin keel and is a true cutter, ie. the mast is further to the rear than a sloop.

Additionally, your experience appears to be in sloop rigged boats. You won't find cutters being to tack as well as a sloop, but when it comes to handling in storms, I love that staysail and its hove-to ability.

Your tankage requirements are rather large. My boat has 2x75 fiberglass fuel and 2x100 s.s. fresh water and that's a lot. This requirement alone will remove many, many boats.

Definitely, for your price range, you should have a small handful of selectable boats to choose from and then it all depends on condition, availability, and price.

Good Luck

I've actually done the spreadsheet thing, although not with that many boats, about 100 designs maybe, and filtered down, have the list I posted. The tankage requirement is pretty flexible, so I won't exclude a boat just for that, although really small tankage usually indicates a coastal boat. Nearly all of the things you list are similar to my criteria, ie: engine access is usually terrible on V drive boats, but if it ticks enough boxes I will consider it. A CC with an engine room is the ideal of course, but sometimes they are too much like a floating condo. The V42 seems like a good one, although I think I prefer the after cockpit, which still has good engine access and a decent aft cabin.

Cutter or solent rig is very high on our list, but if the boat doesn't already have it and is otherwise suitable, we will add it and factor into the overall cost. Many IOR-era sloops do well as a cutter or Solent rig with their large foretriangle, our current C&C with a Solent rig is a good example, although it's not heavily IOR influenced; we use the rig extensively even in coastal cruising, and my wife has stated the next boat must have one, and it should be a furler on the staysail. Our Hawaii passage was on a boat with a removable inner stay. There were times when we needed less sail than the heavy #4, but we didn't want to go on deck to swap to the storm jib. We flew the #4 for 14 of 21 days, all on one tack, often with only a scrap of main. An easily reduced sailplan for a short handed crew is very high on the list, although in the example above, if we'd been on our own boat, I would have just fallen off 10 degrees and been faster, flatter, and more comfortable.

Thanks

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by MJH

When I spent five years doing my offshore (bluewater) boat search I built an Excel database of over 3500 boats in available rigging/keel variations, computed their ratios (SA/DISP, DISP/LWL, COMFORT, CAPSIZE, L/B) plus other features I wanted to AVOID, ie, v-drive, saildrive, bowsprit, bobstay, centerboard, nonlead keel, non FBG, teak decks, etc. I think you need to do somewhat the same. Then sort it for your ideal boat.

FWIW the Tayana Vancouver 42 has a long fin keel and is a true cutter, ie. the mast is further to the stern than a sloop.

Your experience appears to be in sloop rigged boats. You won't find cutters being able to tack as close to the wind as well as a sloop, but when it comes to handling in storms, you'll love that staysail and its hove-to ability.

Your tankage requirements are rather large. My boat has 2x75 fiberglass fuel and 2x100 s.s. fresh water and that's a lot. This requirement alone will remove many boats.

Definitely, for your price range, you should have a small handful of selectable boats to choose from and then it will depend on availability, location, condition, and price. It's all about the tradeoffs you are willing to accept.

Good Luck

Hi, I didn't notice until after my reply that you have a V42ac and are quite close to me. Do you have any photos online? If you're ever up in BC, I'd love to see her.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

I have a 37' Dickerson Ketch. They are very reliable in the open seas and faster than many think a ketch would be. One of our members is selling a 41' version within your pricing: https://eastnc.craigslist.org/boa/d/...608581236.html

Thanks, I have looked at a few of them (online only) over the years. Trying to stay on the W coast if I can though.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

Having gone through a similar process in the last 5 years, culminating in an Atlantic crossing last year, I'd say an ocean-going monohull in the 40-foot range is going to cost you about $100,000, at the end of the day.

We went the route you suggest, spending about half that amount on the boat, and then the other half on getting her up to our standards (replacing sails, rigging, batteries, chain pates, and lots of other things I've mercifully forgotten.

I'm pretty sure I would have saved money if I'd just bought a boat that someone else fixed up! But that's hindsight!

Good luck!

Thanks, and I agree with your assessment. I certainly won't overlook a boat that is nearly ready to go and within our budget.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Wolfhound

If you go smaller there's much to be said for an Allied Seabreeze 35, a bronze one, although it doesn't check all your boxes. If you go with a 40', a sail on a Bermuda 40 may make you forget a few of those boxes.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/be...40-2-hinckley/

I like both of these, but trying to stick with a more modern design, and also avoid centreboards or shoal draft.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

Nothing in particular; I didn't look that closely. It just appeared at first glance to be a little more weekender and/or racer and would need some "upgrades" to make it offshore cruiser ready.

Yes, that pretty much sums up my feeling also. Nice platform to build on, but after removing the teak decks, I'd already be running out of funds...

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I owned a C&C Landfall 42 for a number of years. It first came out around 1976 and I believe they quite building it, in the early 80's.

I liked it, but it had some issues I ultimately could not live with.
#1 was the fact that it came equipped with rod rigging. Rod rigging might be all the rage on an out an out and out racing boat, but on cruising boat it is a pain in the rear end.
It is a relatively small diameter rod, which is very difficult to get ahold off, especially so when wet, when it was extremely slippery.
#2 is that rod rigging is unable to be jury rigged by an onboard owner. Should something happen to any shroud, you won't be able to fix it or otherwise jury rig it.
# 3. if you had to order a new shroud, it would have to pre-measured to the n th degree and shipping it would be difficult as it can't be rolled into a small diameter loop.
#4. The backstay had an hydraulic tensioner, which was another pain in the rear end. I never used it and just as well, as it was prone to leaking hydraulic fluid.
#5. My particular Landfall 42 had a generator installed right behind the main engine, which happened to be right over the prop shaft stuffing box. It was near impossible to get to that stuffing box, which was another royal pain in the rear end.
#6. The bilge pump was equally inaccessible and another pain in the rear end. It lived at the very bottom of the keel and would constantly have water running back down the discharge hose setting it off again, even though I had fitted a non-return valve. It really wasn't worth a damn, and it's output could measured in tablespoons per hour.
#7. The engine exhaust system was also routed in another almost inaccessible place, causing me a lot of headaches.
#8. The worst thing was that the boat was fitted with two heads. The forward head was fitted with an electro scan marine unit. For reasons I never understood, this unit exploded one evening, yes, exploded like a bomb, and the ensuing mess was beyond my ability to describe here without resorting to a number of cuss words.

Though the boat was well laid out and a reasonably good sailing boat, the above finally got the better off me.

I never thought the open transom concept would catch my eye, ala, the latest crop of French and other boats, but a Beneteau 423 hove into sight one day so I went and gave it a look.
One thing led to another, and I bought it. Hands down, it is a fantastic sailing boat with a very nice interior. Like most modern boats, most everything is led back to the cockpit. It too has it faults and foibles, but the sailing performance makes up for it.

I think most any boat will have its good points...and bad points...and the price factor will also certainly come into play.

I have stepped aboard some of the boats listed above. Were they nice...off course...but the asking price seemed to be out of context to what I saw.

The perfect boat does not exist. Some compromise will have to be made somewhere.
For me personally, the Beneteau 423 checks a lot of boxes. For the money, you certainly get a lot of bang for your buck. It's a boat you can take anywhere.
Within a given budget, a lot of the boats listed above, would exceed your budget.

It's time for you to step aboard some of these vessels. Info received here will only get you so far. It's time to put your walking boats on and see for yourself.

My personal opinion is that, the right boat will talk to you the moment you step aboard.

Thanks for the details. We plan to just go sailing soon, and will see how many boats we can get invited aboard (which means we may have visit the busier spots we usually avoid
Around here, that is probably the best way, as very few are on the market locally, but lots are cruising once the weather improves.
Yes, a lot of those boats are a big reach from our budget, I know.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Happ

A few years back I was looking for a live aboard boat. I was talking with the owner of a very reputable yard. He told me in no uncertain terms go with the smallest boat that meets your needs. I asked him about a 39’ boat i was looking at. He said get under that size. Reason is the price of everything jumps. Sails need to be made with thicker cloth. Auto pilots need to be more robust. You need more paint. The engine is bigger. Wiring is bigger and easily becomes more complicated. The list went on.

Yes, I know, and I keep reminding myself of this every time a really nice 47' boat comes along that looks like a deal. I want to sail her, not work on projects forever, so that usually brings me back down to reality, which is the 38-42' range.

[bcboomer]

Fraser 42, if you can find one.