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Oceanride007 · 02-07-2013, 21:23

Last month, I had a short list of boats, I have a spread sheet that assisted me in divining likely boats, however with recent currency fluctuations its looks like all OS boats are now too getting too pricey. The remaining boat on my list is a local boat already imported into Aus, according to my spread sheet and allowing for length, year, construction, reputation and fit out its pure value for money. Only negative is it’s a V berth and a Double ender, but I realised some time ago that I need to compromise. But its at the top end of my comfort zone Dollar wise, (Over US$220000), I could do it with a stretch and but am I crazy thinking I can put training wheels on such a expensive boat.? Feel I must do it now or I never will.

Thanks
Oceanrider, almost!

ozsailer · 03-07-2013, 03:35

Hi Oceanrider,
I believe its very hard to assist unless we know what your plans are and also what your experience is. At the moment, especially here in Oz there are some very good boats that are on the market for a very very good price. There are quite a few that have been on the market for some time. While I am very content with my own sail boat I follow Trade a boat, yacht hub and the other on line sail brokerages just to keep my finger on the pulse of sales - so to speak.
$220 K buys a lot of boat nowadays. Can I ask what you define as a blue water boat. I am sure you will have plenty of people assist you hear and point you in the right direction.

Greg and Sue
Lake Macquarie NSW
Southerly Miss

sailorboy1 · 03-07-2013, 03:54

sounds to me that you are doing all the shopping with your head (spreadsheets etc) and not allowing for your heart

and your heart isn't in that double ender

letsgetsailing3 · 03-07-2013, 04:04

Two problems with that boat.

It's not the one you want, and it's at the top of your price range.

There are plenty of boats out there, so you might want to give this one a pass.

hanami2 · 03-07-2013, 04:40

The english say BOAT is a 4 letter acronym that stands for "Bang On Another Thousand"

: quite true, they also have an other one that says that boating "is like tearing off 20£ bank-notes under a cold shower" ...and the french say it is 'A toy for grown up'. In both cases it implies it can be expensive.
Then the question could become:"is it worth paying that price?"

The real one in fact is "What/why do you want this boat for?

What is your program?

and do you need a new one just out of the shipyard or would a second hand one do the job, particularly if it is for long cruises and you want something already equipped and that has been extensively tested in various sea and weather conditions?"

.
May be answering those question will help you make a choice.
You can have more by clicking >HERE< and using the Translate button on the right. Translation may not be perfect but should work.
All the best.

Oceanride007 · 03-07-2013, 04:42

Response to Ozsailer
I want to live on board go up & down Queensland coast for a couple of years, Vanuatu, Asia via Philippines, then the Indian Ocean, although I'm on my own, its not my intention to single hand but I may have to at times. I choose a larger vessel than single hand would suggest as any crew would require there own space. Blue water to me is, a very capable traditional solid GRP lay up, could be metal, something like the vessels that were built for the US market say 20 years ago with tabbed bulkheads and dry inside, such a vessel would be sail well, fitted out comfortably, plenty of tankage and have a long long life. Something like a Vessel that has been subjectively evaluated by the likes of John Neale in his Mahina site, thou its not my only resource.
I’ve cruised plenty, few deliveries, I’ve been Senior Engineer on Ice breakers to Tankers, worked the superyachts, I do like quality, hence my attraction to a vessel I can hardly afford but I recognize as a bargain. Interesting subject about good boats in Aussie but because opinions are more freely given on US focused forums, I’m more familiar with International boats, thought about Northshore 38 and Cavalier 37,39, Adams a bit slim any others? But my initial question was about “Should I put training wheels on a relatively expensive boat” as even thou I have experience, alas not as skipper.

ozsailer · 03-07-2013, 05:19

Hello again Ocean Rider.
Man its very difficult to point you the right direction based on what you have stated. I have just had a quick perusal through Yacht Domain and Yacht Hub and saw a few boats that I would be very comfortable going offshore. When I refer offshore I am not just talking Coastal Cruising as the vast majority of sail boats on the market are quite capable of this in the right hands.
As it appears you are starting to find out all boats are a compromise. 2) The perfect boat does not exist. 3) You can and always make your boat better but others may not see this the same way you do. 4) Boats are not investments and I have never met anyone who actually made money (other then a broker) on owning then on selling a sail boat. I will clarify this in that I do have a penchant for buying unloved trailer yachts and bringing some love back into their lives and while I sold them for more then I bought them in the end I probably came out square on what I put into them. My current boat I will drop a bomb of money on an unforseen issue despite having the boat surveyed at time of purchase.
Our boat is a 30 Y.O. centre cockpit 38 footer which we are preparing to go cruising next year. We could well afford a newer and larger boat but we think that it is best to stay with what we have. Its proven itself offshore, the drop in money will still be way less then if we bought a new one. We will have a considerable cruising kitty having not expended our funds on buying our boat.
Have a look at yacht Domain and the Endeavour 40 they have on their books. Would appear to suit your needs. You would save close to 100K and leave room for cash if some work required. The other thing I would suggest, especially here in Australia is to buy a yacht with a known name. One of the things I have seen over the years is for people to steer away from one offs or limited models.
When considering Water boats">Blue water boats with training wheels don't forget the Martzcraft 35's Ducanson's and Jarkans which are all proven offshore boats. Ás for experience we jumped from Trailables to a 38 footer. Big jump but never a regret. I don't know if I can offer more info then that but if you like let me know and we can chat about my experiences, the good bad and dam ugly

hanami2 · 03-07-2013, 08:28

For Blue Sea cruising may be could you look at something like the "Aluminium OVNIs"

from ALUBAT (used to be Jimmy Cornell's boat). They really are built for that purpose, are strong, reliable, not that easy to find on the 'second hand' market but there are quite a few around.
Here is a link to a brooker site and if you want to stay in the 40 footer range, the 395 or 385 would be fine. Even the 36x serie has lots of owners who sailed around the world with them and leave on board. from this perspective the 365 with a newly designed careen may be the best with a draught between 0.9 and 2m thanks to her lifting keel/dagger board. Even been the last model there are some second hand one available but they don't last very long in this state as the demand is high.

Heart of Gold · 03-07-2013, 08:51

The boat you should look at is a Valiant 40 if you can find one down there. It has all the characteristics that you are looking for although it does have a round stern. They are fast capable anywhere boats and I know of 2 owners in our yacht club that single hand most of the time. You should be able to find a middle to late 80's model that wasn't affected by the fire retardent for a pretty reasonable price. They didn't make it into the Sailboat Hall of Fame for nothing.

David_Old_Jersey · 03-07-2013, 10:54

That's a decent yacht budget (in any country!) - personally I would never go for any boat that was a stretch financially (would take the fun out of it!).......If not enough value in Australia maybe look to buy in Asia - someone's broken dreams!

Oceanride007 · 03-07-2013, 16:36

Response to Hanami
It was with regret that I missed out on a Ovni435 6 months ago, they have not missed my scrutiny, as quite a few other French built vessels, Wauquiesz, Amel, even some of the Production vessels. Amel of course being a ketch would be easy to sail once I left the Marina, but during my learning cycle (Training wheels) I'm reluctant to go over the 40'. All OS (Overseas) purchases incur Bank charge, duty & sales Tax. An imposition of 18% makes it difficult for some, hence with the recent drop of Au$ (kicking myself) local boats are looking better. Mediteranean boats can't be considered, still because of the pirate issues, although interesting developments of trucking thru Saudi have occurred, not interested in ship transport. Not a lot of quality supply in Aus due I think to locals in the past not willing to spend the $$$, hence my interest OS.

Oceanrider

Oceanride007 · 03-07-2013, 17:32

Heart of Gold, I like your thinking. Perry boats right up there, if only pullman berth came within reach.
David old jersey, Asia been there done that, there are some good boats for sale some have taken advantage of local economic repairers.
Theres some good yachts in bigger range. Not so many in my range, Not frightened of doing some repairs. Some is key word. Remember you may be miles away from home. Better I reckon to get a yacht that is useable now if your buying in remote place.

ato · 03-07-2013, 18:19

you might want to check out the boats in asia, esp. malaysia and thailand. there are tons of good value boats around here, and you won't have to think about shipping. even finding a delivery skipper is no biggie and wont cause as much financial pain as a dockwise or otherwise yacht transport. or just go cruising in S.E.A. first after buying the boat.

hanami2 · 03-07-2013, 23:39

To OceanRider

Thx, OVNIs, Amel and Wauquier are definitely good blue Sea cruisers.
If you look for some second hand OVNIs one, have a look at the OVNI Club web site. Alternatively I could ask the ship yard if they know one for sale in your area: there are some all around the planet and some were for sale in the Pacific Ocean. Don't know for now but may be Alubat would.

Same for AMEL, visit the web site: they used to have a second hand section or drop them a mail. They are designed to be sailed short handed AND even single handed. I sailed one and that's true. They are more expensive, that's a fact but they are easy to sell and the second hand market is very active, particularly since the new 55 is available: some want to 'upgrade' to this new model that is quite expensive in the million euros range.

Sailing a 40+ foot OVNI (or something different) is no problem if you are 2 and in open water. They are quite easy are very stable. Single handed is a bit more tricky because you need to anticipate more and you will be alone for the 'watches' but it will be the same with a smaller boat. It the among of canvas you have is OK for the weather you have, or even a bit smaller, a bigger boat will be more stable and not more dangerous.
The challenge will be when cruising coastal and you have to do things faster because of traffic of in marinas in windy conditions. Here it may be different if there is no one to give you a hand.

All the best.