Blue Water

[boatman61]

Centre beds (square) may be great in marina's and on the hook but.. getting rolled out in a sea on a regular basis gets old fast..

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually this isn't quite true. I look at the list of the boats that have raced the Single Handed Transpac (which is from San Francisco to Hawaii) and am quite amazed that folks would sail some of those boats in that race the 2100 miles or so

Sounds like the Jester Challenge series in the UK. Either the Azores and Back (AZAB) or the longer UK to NY. Maximum length is 30ft although they do allow amateurs that are slightly over to complete by invitation. Some quite interesting small yachts that you might at first walk past without a second glance unless you knew what they were up to.

The Jester Challenge : Challenge and Adventure

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sounds like the Jester Challenge series in the UK. Either the Azores and Back (AZAB) or the longer UK to NY. Maximum length is 30ft although they do allow amateurs that are slightly over to complete by invitation. Some quite interesting small yachts that you might at first walk past without a second glance unless you knew what they were up to.

The Jester Challenge : Challenge and Adventure

Not quite, there are boats up to at least 60' on the SHTP archive list. That Jester Challenge though looks to be a tough race to do and then return.

http://sfbaysss.net/archive-shtp-web...tsThru2012.htm

Jester Challenge boat prep: http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/jester-cha...dventure-18718

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by MartinR

I love flush-decked boats, but for heavy weather this is not a good solution. All the "clutter" on deck gives you something to hold on to.

A well built flush deck boat is stronger than one with a raised cabin top. I like flush deck boats.

[rostyvyg]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

It sounds like you have memorized their glossy brochures. Such enthusiasm is cool, but they are still production boats.

Jim

I don't need to memorize glossy brochures. These are all real time observations. Like enjoying uncluttered Island Packet deck while observing Hunters and Catalinas with 30 fuel and water jugs lashed topside. Like being safe and secure in the IP galley while underway and being unable to safely cook or even move due to wide below deck spaces and lack of handholds on the new ...eneaus. Like being the only boat on the way (and being comfortable) when other flat bottom fin keel "production boats" reef heavily and duck for cover. My point was, and you missed it, - there are different levels of "production boats" manufactured with different end users in sight. And, unfortunately, 95% of those cater to "disposable" charter market, coastal cruisers or wannabe racers regardless of how they advertise. But there are still a few of "production boat" makers who build quality vessels much better suitable to blue water long term cruising: Amel, Hallberg-Rassy, Island Packet, Moody, etc. Can they compare to a custom build titanium hull Ketch equipped with hydraulics and redundant everything? Surely not. But if I had to sail around the world I would not doubt any of those.

PS. Have people circumnavigated in CataHunterBeneJennaus? Certainly. Given a choice I would prefer not to, though.

[boatman61]

Horse's for course's.. and as any jockey will tell you.. if it stays the course its a good horse.
Foinavon was a mediocre horse at 200/1 but he won the Grand National when all the 'good horse's' fell..

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

A well built flush deck boat is stronger than one with a raised cabin top. I like flush deck boats.

Valid point That is why for example the Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters were flush-decked. I had one for 16 years. BTW, Without doubt the most sea-worthy and sea-kindly boat I ever sailed. Probably ever built.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sounds like the Jester Challenge series in the UK. Either the Azores and Back (AZAB) or the longer UK to NY. Maximum length is 30ft although they do allow amateurs that are slightly over to complete by invitation. Some quite interesting small yachts that you might at first walk past without a second glance unless you knew what they were up to.

The Jester Challenge : Challenge and Adventure

A few of these have done the trip to the Azores over the years..
WESTERLY 22 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
And Roger Taylor did the Plymouth to Newport in one of these.. junk rigged.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?CLASS_ID=3282

[Jim Cate]

My point was, and you missed it, - there are different of "production boats" manufactured with different end users in sight.

Actually, I did grasp your point, and I certainly agree that there are production boats with different market niches and different quality levels. My original post (the one that you were disagreeing with) was in response to the discussion of "blue water" vs "production boats" and the general agreement that there was some inherent difference between the two categories.

I think that your kinda rose tinted view of the IP designs shows enthusiasm and a lot of product loyalty. Your view of the mass market Benehuntalinas might actually be a bit distorted, for some of them have accomplished excellent passages and cruises, and without acres of jerry jugs, failing keels, intolerable pounding, etc. Their deck gear has held up,their winches were of useful size... etc... all those things you implied were unique to the IP production line and missing in theirs.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of many mass market yachts, and certainly don't like the construction methods in use in many of them. Equally, I'm not impressed by some of the features of the IP line that you extol. Neither opinion means the designs are bad, just that they do not meet my personal criteria for MY cruising boat.

So, I'll now shut up... it's Australia Day here, and we might well join the throngs of celebrants by sailing our non-production boat to another anchorage.

Jim

[rostyvyg]

There has been an excellent recent article that summarized desirable features of bluewater long distance cruising sailboats: https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...ewater-cruiser

Unfortunately, there is less then a handful of current manufacturers who build boats like that and new ones are becoming prohibitively expensive. And yes, - I am biased towards Island Packets. Takes sailing one extensively to fully appreciate them.