Bestevaer 49ST

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by GordMay

4 moles of water are produced from each mole of propane burnt, so multiplying by 4 gives the number of moles of water produced per unit of time. So, if you have complete combustion of propane, you will produce 4 cubic feet of water vapour, for every cubic foot of propane burnt.

That is for gases in the same pressures.

2 moles of C3H8 (88g/44.8ltr) + 7 moles of O2 (224g/157ltr) = 6 moles of CO2 (204g/134ltr)+ 8 moles of H2O (33g/180ltr) That is if I didn't muff my calcs

Anyways, burning 100g/3.5oz of propane produces about 200 litres/7cft of water vapour.

[mrm]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

That is for gases in the same pressures.

2 moles of C3H8 (88g/44.8ltr) + 7 moles of O2 (224g/157ltr) = 6 moles of CO2 (204g/134ltr)+ 8 moles of H2O (33g/180ltr) That is if I didn't muff my calcs

Anyways, burning 100g/3.5oz of propane produces about 200 litres/7cft of water vapour.

Not sure about your result, 200l or 200ml?


Propane: C3H8
molar mass: 3*12+8*1 = 44g/mole
full burn: C3H8 + 5 O2 -> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O


water: H2O
molar mass: 2*1+16 = 18g/mole


so burning 1 mole of propane (44g) produces 4 moles of water (4*18g = 72g).




BTW, for butane (which is usually the case except in cold climate areas):


Butane: C4H10
molar mass: 4*12+10*1 = 58g/mole
full burn: 2 C4H10 + 13 O2 -> 8 CO2 + 10 H2O


so burning one mole of butane (58g) produces five moles of water (90g).




And another tricky question is how much propane/butane is needed to bring to boil one litre of water (say, starting from 20 deg C). Tricky, because a minimum amount of heat required can be directly calculated from water's specific heat, but how much energy transfer from a burner to the kettle there is, is a different story altogether.




Edit:
did a quick calc of the minimum energy required:
specific heat of water is: 4.186 J/g/degC
1 litre is 1000g
delta T is 100 degC - 20 degC = 80 degC



so the theoretical minimum would be 4.186 * 1000 * 80 = 334880J

= approx. 0.335MJ


Burning propane releases ~50MJ/kg, so at least 0.335/50 = 0.0067kg = 6.7g of propane would be used, producing (6.7 * 72/44) almost 11g of byproduct water. In practice, estimating the energy transfer efficiency between open gas burner and a kettle to be approx. 25%, one would burn ~27g of propane and produce ~45g of water in the process.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by mrm

Not sure about your result, 200l or 200ml?

One gaseousmole of gas (any) in atmospheric pressure is 22.4 litres.

ps Don't know how the terms are in english but for gases the its counted the molecule weight of one mole in grams is by volume 22.4 litres.

[mrm]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

One gaseousmole of gas (any) in atmospheric pressure is 22.4 litres.

ps Don't know how the terms are in english but for gases the its counted the molecule weight of one mole in grams is by volume 22.4 litres.

Anyways, burning 100g/3.5oz of propane produces about 200 litres/7cft of water vapour.

OK, missed the vapour

So, if my estimate is right, bringing one litre of water to a boil will produce 2.5 moles of byproduct water, which in gaseous phase will be 56 litres (and in an aqueous phase will be roughly a fifth of a glass). Seems our numbers are in at least the same ballpark.

[noelex 77]

We are hoping to be at KM’s open day again this year, which will be on Saturday April 13th. Send me a PM if you are interested in meeting up for a drink the evening before.

This is a photo from last year:

[Alden]

Hello noelex and SL. Great boat! Thanks for the thread.

Um, re the Tank Tender gauge, does it really say 'Washinginton'?

Perhaps that's how they spell it in China? hehe.

Pic attached.

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Tank monitoring:
This will be via a Tank Tender gauge. We used this system successfully on our previous yacht.

[Alden]

Hello noelex and SL.

Again, thanks for this thread. Inspiring stuff!

My wife and I have been looking closely at a few new yachts and have also been looking at your Bestevaer.

We think we've narrowed down to two, the nature of which could define the type of sailing we do, as you'll understand when I say that they are: a Hallberg-Rassy 44, which we think we would very much enjoy sailing to the destinations it is well suited to, which is most of the usual places that aren't too risky. Close to the HR 44 on our list of possibilities is the Garcia Exploration 45, which could/would open up the possibilities for extended adventures, but in our eyes would not be as enjoyable to sail (or live aboard) as the HR. I do however note your point that robustness, reliability and security are pretty enjoyable things to have.

Should we look into a KMY Bestevaer? Hmmm... . From all that I've read in this thread (along with other digging) it strikes me that it's the kind of yacht that after five years of cruising (or less) we might think we should have bought in the first place. What would be helpful at this point would be to know .. and how to put this delicately ...??

'Ow much?

Around about.

Thanks for any clues.

If this has been discussed somewhere, sorry, I missed it. Pointers?

Thanks. Alden.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by Alden

Hello noelex and SL. Great boat! Thanks for the thread.

Um, re the Tank Tender gauge, does it really say 'Washinginton'?

Perhaps that's how they spell it in China? hehe.

Pic attached.

Now that's funny.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Alden

Perhaps that's how they spell it in China? hehe.

Thanks Alden I don’t think I will be able to look at the gauge again without my eyes being drawn to the mistake .

The Tank Tender system was made in the USA and I thought that was still the case, but perhaps like so many companies they have moved to China?

We installed the instruments ourselves and spent a long time lining up the various displays so the tops all neatly matched and gaps between the instuments were all the same. I doubt anyone else would notice. Perhaps printing “Washinginton” is like the philosophy behind Amish quilts: everything needs to be made with a deliberate mistake, because only God is perfect.

The tank tander gauge is a great system especially for an aluminium boat, as it does not need any electrical connection. We had the same system on our old boat and it never missed a beat. Reliability is its greatest strength, as it simply uses air pressure, but it is nice to be able to measure the tank level very precisely, although unlike some electronic gauges, a table is needed to convert the depth of liquid into litres or gallons.

[Alden]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks Alden I don’t think I will be able to look at the gauge again without my eyes being drawn to the mistake .

Oh, so sorry for drawing it to your attention. I was sure it had been spotted before.

But don't feel too bad. I saw a friend's new boat recently and straight away pointed to the name and home port and asked, 'Dude, when are they gonna fix the spelling of Xxxxxxxx?' He just looked at it with a stunned face, mouth open, blinking, body frozen. It was like a comedy. Then he shook his head a few times, as if to clear his eyes. OMG it was funny. He hadn't noticed. He knew what it was meant to say and so, just saw that. I felt awful.

You might have seen my next post, about, 'Ow much?' I've asked the same question of KMY. First with an answer wins!

[packeteer]

ball park was 750k back when they started

[Alden]

AUD? Really?

Edit. Gotta be EUD, surely. Even that seems hard to believe.

[packeteer]

yes, in Euro. I don't want to step on their toes, so no more info [emoji3]

[Alden]

Fair enough.

I'll have a good play with the generic numbers I've asked KMY to send me. See how it compares with the other boats I've mentioned.

I really like the idea of having those 360 windows in the pilot house, in rotten, cold weather.

[packeteer]

I'd love one, even in a 45, but I could not afford until I'm about 90 [emoji23]