Best Size Sailboat For Singlehander

[oceannavigator]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually it does matter what size you singlehand. It's so obvious I'm surprised you'd say that.

Would it be easier to sail a Sunfish in to the marina singlehanded or a 45' boat?

Think about it.

Sure, but that same Sunfish is a death sentence once you leave the harbor.

My point, which was probably not clear due to the fact that i post from a tablet and cannot write huge posts, is this:

Singlehanding works on any boat at all, of any size, given it is set up properly for it. It is not the size of the boat, but the way everything is set up. I have routinely single handed a 50ft sloop and currently have a much larger boat. Not a big deal if everything is set up correctly. As you get into 60ft, 80ft, they start to cost big $$$$$ and some of this big budget can be allocated to setting everything up to singlehand. Electric winches, smooth operation of cars and track, high purchase ratios, etc, etc.

A 30ft boat set up poorly could be a bigger handful than a 60 footer rigged up the right way.

[oceannavigator]

My mistake. I came at this from a cruising perspective. If it is a day sailing boat, as a few prior posts are suggesting, smaller is a lot better. Yard fees, not out all the time on it,so it is not second nature, etc...

I will say I have flown an asymmetric spinnaker, from a sock, on a 50 footer, singlehanded, in the ICW though. Got a few looks of astonishment. But conditions were perfect for it. Had it up all afternoon.

Originally Posted by oceannavigator

Sure, but that same Sunfish is a death sentence once you leave the harbor.

My point, which was probably not clear due to the fact that i post from a tablet and cannot write huge posts, is this:

Singlehanding works on any boat at all, of any size, given it is set up properly for it. It is not the size of the boat, but the way everything is set up. I have routinely single handed a 50ft sloop and currently have a much larger boat. Not a big deal if everything is set up correctly. As you get into 60ft, 80ft, they start to cost big $$$$$ and some of this big budget can be allocated to setting everything up to singlehand. Electric winches, smooth operation of cars and track, high purchase ratios, etc, etc.

A 30ft boat set up poorly could be a bigger handful than a 60 footer rigged up the right way.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by RainDog

I did say the smallest YOU can live with. As for you selection, a 4T boat is a pretty small boat and quite reasonable for a single hander. Of course docking such a light boat solo might be a major PITA.

I say the smallest you can live with because I am convinced based on spending so much time in marinas that for 90% of sailors the smaller the boat, the more they will use it. If you are trying to decide if you should get the 30' boat or the 40' boat, I say the 30' boat is always the right choice if you are just daysailing it.

I say daysailing because if you are racing, there might be other considerations based on how you are racing. E.g., if there is a large fleet of Catalina 40 one-design racing in your area, that might argue for the 40 footer. However if you are just bumming around, the smaller boat will be much better for the single-hander.

I do agree with some of what you're saying if you're a couple or person working on a limited, unsteady or unknown budget looking to cruise effectively then yes you're absolutely correct IMHO.

My 18 y/o nephew has limited sailing experience is looking to find a liveaboard while in college in SC that he can do some racing on so I'm helping him get a Saber 30 right now. (bigger than his proposed dorm room) Smart kid.

I personally don't understand why most people who do not sail often or liveaboard own boats of any size.

I personally sail my 44 very often more than twice a month except when on my job rotation my adult track in size of boats was from 32ft - 48ft.

If I was going to be a liveaboard, singlehanded offshore racer with a 250 - 300k buying budget I would pick a Cambria 44/46 or a Cherubini 44

If I was a single man with a 40k buying budget cruising the east coast and Caribbean and no real job I would take an Islander 32 - 36 or some <30 Bristol

If I was in my late 20's with a fickle lady on my hip looking to cross a few oceans I with a 150 - 175k budget I would take a Tashiba 40 or Little Harbor 38.

If I was a aspiring offshore sailor with a 40k budget and no real job. I'd take a ole Wet Snail 32 - 42 and get a temp job somewhere as a fix her up.

If I was extremely broke kid with no money I would take a job in a yard and take whatever boat someone would give me.

If I was a billionaire looking to single hand around the world and keep the lady guest happy I'd go get a Wally.

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by satdiver

I'd go get a Wally.

Wally?

If I was a billionaire I would probably get a Gunboat.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by RainDog

Wally?

If I was a billionaire I would probably get a Gunboat.

Sounds like something Ted Hood could have said to Ted Turner before he whooped Hoods ass with Gary's skills in the Americas Cup on his own boat.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by thomm225

...
ERICSON 35-3 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The Ericson has an excellent reputation as a well built boat by an established designer. And it is a very nice step up from your Bristol 27. But still of a size that is easy for 1 person to handle.

Decades ago I helped a young man setup for single-handing a 50' Palmer Johnson aluminum sloop, which he sailed, alone, to Hawaii. He had no trouble with its size.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by RainDog

My post make me think about one-design racing. I think there is a reason almost all one design boats are under 30'. If you are sailing for the fun of it, there is really no reason to ever go over 30'. Cost if of course a primary driver of one-design popularity, but I think how much fun boats are to sail is too. Larger boats are just less fun.

If course if you will be crossing oceans or living on them, then you need to consider comfort as well as sailing fun.

http://racing.ussailing.org/Assets/R...ey+Results.pdf

If the boat is sailed on a lake or on protected waters a boat under 30ft can be OK and I agree it can give lot's of fun but day sailing does not means necessarily sailing on protected waters or inshore. There are many places that have just no protected waters and in that case a bigger boat can be more comfortable, dry, faster as well as a lot more fun.

Regarding one class sailing boats to be under 30ft, the best known one class solo offshore racer is the Beneteau Figaro II and it is a 33.3ft boat. It seems to be a lot of fun to me

Jean-Pierre Nicol sailing fast on a Figaro - 35kts - Rough weather - YouTube

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

The Ericson has an excellent reputation as a well built boat by an established designer. And it is a very nice step up from your Bristol 27. But still of a size that is easy for 1 person to handle.

You can get a Bristol 35.5 for around the same price as a Ericsson 35 The Bristol will hold a better resale value and in IMHO better constructed not using plastic resin.

I'd prefer the centreboard design since he prefers to race in general.

[SaltyMonkey]

Pogo, Figaro, sunfast!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by RainDog

When I had my 27 footer, I would single hand all the time in any condition. When I switched to my 34 footer, I for sure was less eager to leave the dock. I started trying to find crew before leaving the dock. I would still single hand, but for sure it happened less and I never seemed to do it >20 knots.

In the 27 footer, I often preferred to single hand, and would sometime try to avoid crew. In the 34 footer, I always prefer crew and single hand as a last resort.

My experience with similar boats was different.

I singlehanded our 25 footer for 13 years and have been doing it with our 34 footer for the past 15.

Much dpends on how it is set up, I agree.

Regular mainsail.
Furling jib.
Double line reefing.
Wheel.
AP (old ST3000 - CPT will be next!)

Much room down below, including the shower!

Even if you daysail, bein able to STAND UP COMPLETELY when down below I think is very important.

I do NOT miss the old Catalina 25 "stoop!"

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by satdiver

You can get a Bristol 35.5 for around the same price as a Ericsson 35 The Bristol will hold a better resale value and in IMHO better constructed not using plastic resin.

I'd prefer the centreboard design since he prefers to race in general.

Diver, I don't quite get it: if the two designs are both "elderly" boats, they are well down on their depreciation curves. You say that they are available for around the same price. How, then, can the Bristol hold a better resale value? If this was true, then the Bristol wouldn't be available for the same price! Especially since IIRC the Bristol was a higher priced vessel than the Ericsson when new.

And exactly what is the Bristol made of? IIRC, they are FRP boats, just like the Ericsson, and doubtless both built with polyester resins and glass cloth and matt.

There may well be differences in build quality, but both surely use Polyester "plastic resin".

As for the size issue, in the size range being discussed it doesn't make all that much difference. That is, 30 feet or 36 feet... not a huge difference in s/h difficulty. I can say this with some confidence, having done just that: single handed a Yankee 30 for many miles of racing and some cruising, and a Standfast 36 (IOR one-tonner) as well (not racing... I'd learned better!).

More important to me is the stability and the tracking of the boat. Boats that are erratic in motion and that require a lot of steering input put more demands on the skipper than those with better behavior. And as others have said, heavy displacement means higher loads on everything.

Hmmm... there's a conflict, for stability and tracking are often (not always) associated with greater displacement. I hate it when faced with conflicts like that! But fortunately there are designs that make the right compromises and help the hapless singlehander find a good boat. For me, it was the Yankee 30, and I suspect that other Sparkman and Stevens designs of that era would exhibit equally good behavior. The S&S 34's that were used by a couple of s/h circumnavigators fall into that category, and serve to reinforce my thoughts.

My final thought for Thomm25 is simply to ignore all of us and go for a sail on each of your potential prospects. A few hours invested thus will answer your questions far better than distant pundits can ever do.

Good hunting!

Jim

[MarkSF]

I've been on Ericson 35 mk 3s, and the Bristol 35.5, and both are beautifully made boats, especially if it's one of the late Ericsons made by Pacific Seacraft.

The Bristol has a really big jib, so that would tip the balance in favor of the Ericson. But if I came across that really nice example of either, I'd snap it up.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Diver, I don't quite get it: if the two designs are both "elderly" boats, they are well down on their depreciation curves. You say that they are available for around the same price. How, then, can the Bristol hold a better resale value? If this was true, then the Bristol wouldn't be available for the same price! Especially since IIRC the Bristol was a higher priced vessel than the Ericsson when new.

And exactly what is the Bristol made of? IIRC, they are FRP boats, just like the Ericsson, and doubtless both built with polyester resins and glass cloth and matt.

There may well be differences in build quality, but both surely use Polyester "plastic resin".

As for the size issue, in the size range being discussed it doesn't make all that much difference. That is, 30 feet or 36 feet... not a huge difference in s/h difficulty. I can say this with some confidence, having done just that: single handed a Yankee 30 for many miles of racing and some cruising, and a Standfast 36 (IOR one-tonner) as well (not racing... I'd learned better!).

More important to me is the stability and the tracking of the boat. Boats that are erratic in motion and that require a lot of steering input put more demands on the skipper than those with better behavior. And as others have said, heavy displacement means higher loads on everything.

Hmmm... there's a conflict, for stability and tracking are often (not always) associated with greater displacement. I hate it when faced with conflicts like that! But fortunately there are designs that make the right compromises and help the hapless singlehander find a good boat. For me, it was the Yankee 30, and I suspect that other Sparkman and Stevens designs of that era would exhibit equally good behavior. The S&S 34's that were used by a couple of s/h circumnavigators fall into that category, and serve to reinforce my thoughts.

My final thought for Thomm25 is simply to ignore all of us and go for a sail on each of your potential prospects. A few hours invested thus will answer your questions far better than distant pundits can ever do.

Good hunting!

Jim

First off the OP is in VA and I can guarantee you'll sell a Bristol 35.5 faster and for a better price than a Ericson 35 on the East Coast US. As for the logic behind pricing. For example if I'm in a pinch would I rather sell in 4 weeks at 10k or 4 weeks at 5k in this neighbourhood. Same way smart property investors operate.

As for Bristol Construction these guys did something called a simi diagonal layup with lap timing in the morning (only) and only on dry days. Same thing we used to do in Eastern NC building 50+ ft simi custom sportfishes. Ted Hood was huge on this and in fact it was one of the reasons when he offshored Little Harbors to Taiwan he set up his own operation after a few early poor quality builds.

Ericson at least on the 35's used a parallel cross coating on a simi diagonal layup which actually makes them more prone to osmosis issues and blisters.

As for the other matters I can agree on lack of knowledge because I'm not a big racer but I know in the C-bay area every old sailmaker and racers I know prefer the centerboard and I can't help but to think there is a reason for that.

Source for building I worked full time as a fibricator and fibreglass specialist at Jarrett Bay Boatworks and Parker Marine. Source of education was building Shrimp Boats for Homer Smith.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Polux

If the boat is sailed on a lake or on protected waters a boat under 30ft can be OK and I agree it can give lot's of fun but day sailing does not means necessarily sailing on protected waters or inshore. There are many places that have just no protected waters and in that case a bigger boat can be more comfortable, dry, faster as well as a lot more fun.

Regarding one class sailing boats to be under 30ft, the best known one class solo offshore racer is the Beneteau Figaro II and it is a 33.3ft boat. It seems to be a lot of fun to me

Sorry to jump in here but I just had to add this one: http://youtu.be/z_ExqQ80T5g

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by satdiver

First off the OP is in VA and I can guarantee you'll sell a Bristol 35.5 faster and for a better price than a Ericson 35 on the East Coast US. As for the logic behind pricing. For example if I'm in a pinch would I rather sell in 4 weeks at 10k or 4 weeks at 5k in this neighbourhood. Same way smart property investors operate.

As for Bristol Construction these guys did something called a simi diagonal layup with lap timing in the morning (only) and only on dry days. Same thing we used to do in Eastern NC building 50+ ft simi custom sportfishes. Ted Hood was huge on this and in fact it was one of the reasons when he offshored Little Harbors to Taiwan he set up his own operation after a few early poor quality builds.

Ericson at least on the 35's used a parallel cross coating on a simi diagonal layup which actually makes them more prone to osmosis issues and blisters.

As for the other matters I can agree on lack of knowledge because I'm not a big racer but I know in the C-bay area every old sailmaker and racers I know prefer the centerboard and I can't help but to think there is a reason for that.

Source for building I worked full time as a fibricator and fibreglass specialist at Jarrett Bay Boatworks and Parker Marine. Source of education was building Shrimp Boats for Homer Smith.

Can you tell me anything more about the Bristol construction? What is semi diagonal layup? I have a Bristol 31.1 and my impression of the construction is that it's bombproof. Also so far it's been immune to blisters. But I would be interested to know why.