Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

[antoha]

Sully,
we have a 1968 LeComte NE38. ours is version 3, this one is version 1, see here:
NORTHEAST 38-1 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
this boat has been for sale for a couple of years now, i believe.

we are very happy with ours, although there are things to watch out for: fuel tank (some are integral fiberglass in the keel - but this one has a new one); wiring (not much to begin with, just running lights and interior lights; but i believe it was all single strand originally, soldered where necessary), so if the POs didn't add a whole bunch of stuff it should be a tedious but straightforward project. there's also very little insulation in the icebox (less than an inch of 50 year old foam), unless upgraded.

ours also had all portlights and hatches leak, but that's easily fixable. exterior wood is a royal PITA to maintain, especially if it's varnished - but this one looks seatol'd, less to my visual liking but also less work.
headroom is 6'5" (?), plenty for me (6'2").

everyone's partial to their boat, of course. if you decide to go look at a NE38, i'll be more than happy to tell you everything i know about ours (4 years of ownership).

Anton

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by sully75

I guess to get on the terminal boat sooner than later, to avoid investing in the current boat and losing that money in the long run. And also to be able to live on it in the meantime.

Not sure it's advisable. Just that would be my thinking.


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My perspective is that a boat is inherently a bad financial decision, why make it worse by financing it. It also means more restrictions due to financing and insurance (which will now be required).

[ctl411]

Originally Posted by sully75

Is that true? I didn't realize it was so hard to get a loan on a boat?


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If you have good credit should not be a problem to get a loan. Our boat was over 35 years old when we bought it. Check with credit unions for better rates although the national banks came close to the rates also.

[sully75]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

At this point after some more thinking about it I think I'll be sticking with the Triton for at least another year if not longer. It's paid for and we did pretty well on my first single handed trip of any length (Marblehead to Baltimore). The things that frustrated me are somewhat fixable, namely:

1) outboard performance was really spotty but mostly because of a lot of cavitation in bigger swells (I had a fair amount of swells with not much wind on days when I had to make time, a really bad combination). But I have a fixed mount and a medium shaft outboard. If I get one of the really long shaft Tohatsus and put it on a moveable mount this can only get much, much better and in truth I made really good time with the setup the way it was. The thing is that when you are stressed out, the sound of cavitation is really awful. But another 10" of shaft and getting it in a better spot would help a ton.

2) Visibility: have a dinghy on deck and when I had changes done to the rig they dropped the jib to the deck. Both made keeping watch really stressful as it necessitated a lot of moving around to get a basic scan of the horizon. Both of these can be adjusted quite a bit though. Might have to have the jib recut because it's topping out on the furler. Or move the stay higher and add an extender to the bottom.

3) storage: mostly brought way way too much stuff.

Anyway, I think I'm going to try to fix things without investing much more money in the boat. I will have to buy a new outboard but otherwise I'll just try to go cheap. Since it's an old boat with limited resale value I'm thinking I'll use exterior plywood which should give me 5-10 years as long as I do it right.

That's the plan as of right now, tomorrow I might change my mind!

[Scout 30]

"The best boat to go cruising in is the one you already own." Sensible Cruising, The Thoreau Approach (Quoted from memory)

[sully75]

well it's a tough call. I've put a ridiculous amount of money into this boat as it is and ultimately I will need to sell, so anything I put in now will not be saved for something ultimately bigger.

That said, I don't need to put too much more into it and it's actually pretty ok the way it is. I could do with radar, but don't know if that's really going to happen.

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Why would you want to get a loan on a boat?

Unless you are going to live on it, it's not really something you need.

Plus most of them sit at the dock more than they are used.

1. Tax reasons.....under many circumstances interest paid on second a home is tax deductible.

2. Interest rates are very low now. It carries some risk, but preserving cash for other investments while paying a low interest rate on a boat is a potential investment strategy.




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[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by accomplice

1. Tax reasons.....under many circumstances interest paid on second a home is tax deductible.

2. Interest rates are very low now. It carries some risk, but preserving cash for other investments while paying a low interest rate on a boat is a potential investment strategy.




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Denial Pattern #4. Rationalizing: I Say To Myself:"If I can find good enough reasons for my problems, I won’t have to deal with them!"

Just kidding of course. I'm definitely going to be in some debt after I get my next boat. I think it's worth it, within reason, since my job is stable and my life is happening now, but as an admitted sailing addict I can't say I can rationalize it as a "good" decision.

Related question: I never insured my last boat since to do so would be an annual cost of almost half its total value, but I think my next boat is going to need insurance.

Can anyone estimate very roughly how much insurance will cost per year on some of the boats mentioned in this thread? And what kind of insurance would be recommended? I'm pretty ignorant on the subject and I'm not sure what the coverage options would be. Some minimal hull/rig protection with liablity perhaps? Or is it all or nothing?

[sully75]

I'm paying $800 on a value of $18,000. Which is more than I could sell for so...


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[vancouver25]

I also own a Triton and have been through your same thought process many times. I always come back to...it's paid for and with some small (maybe add a dodger?) investment, could go now. To get anything else "offshore" ready I think is $50k if starting over. How long could you be out with that $50k and would the actual experience be that different than someone in a bigger, faster, newer boat?

One suggestion, my Triton has the outboard well modification as seen on James Baldwin's site. I also have a 20" (medium) outboard. Last trip to Catalina we were making less than 2 knots to windward in the short chop and 20+ knots of wind under sail. I was getting tired after 13 hours of bashing and 30 hours without sleep so fired up the 6hp outboard. No cavitation, between 4.5-4.8 knots, and about .4 gph.

In other words, you might be able to keep your same outboard and put it in a well for less than the cost of replacing the motor, and you'll have a much better setup. Also nice not having to lean over the stern to start, tilt, etc.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by sully75

I'm paying $800 on a value of $18,000. Which is more than I could sell for so...


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That seems steep. I am paying 1200 for agreed hull value of 140K with boat US. Granted thats just East Coast US. Is yours an agreed hull value policy? If it's actual cash value you are way overinsured.


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[sully75]

Originally Posted by vancouver25

I also own a Triton and have been through your same thought process many times. I always come back to...it's paid for and with some small (maybe add a dodger?) investment, could go now. To get anything else "offshore" ready I think is $50k if starting over. How long could you be out with that $50k and would the actual experience be that different than someone in a bigger, faster, newer boat?

One suggestion, my Triton has the outboard well modification as seen on James Baldwin's site. I also have a 20" (medium) outboard. Last trip to Catalina we were making less than 2 knots to windward in the short chop and 20+ knots of wind under sail. I was getting tired after 13 hours of bashing and 30 hours without sleep so fired up the 6hp outboard. No cavitation, between 4.5-4.8 knots, and about .4 gph.

In other words, you might be able to keep your same outboard and put it in a well for less than the cost of replacing the motor, and you'll have a much better setup. Also nice not having to lean over the stern to start, tilt, etc.

That's interesting...I hadn't really thought about it (seemed like a lot of work) but yeah, it would be much better. Did you do the work yourself?

My engine is a 2004 and I had a lot of trouble with it this summer. I think it's all fixed now (runs great) but I think it might be time for a replacement if I go to Canada (I'd like to be able to go to fairly remote harbors in Newfoundland and Labrador). I was just noticing that the Tohatsu 6hp sail drives have an alternator, I didn't think that was available on any 6hp. That would help supplement my solar panel in a pinch.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about your well.

[vancouver25]

James Baldwin did the conversion on my boat before I bought it so can't speak to how much work it would be but I'm thinking not that bad after you get past the fear of cutting a hole in the transom. The inside framing is reinforced with epoxy-saturated marine ply and tabbed in then fiberglassed over. Hardest part is probably the design and measurements. James has done a lot of these now -- I think he's launching Atom again this week with a new outboard well as part of the refit. Really nice and helpful guy so if you are seriously thinking about it contact him.

Here are some links (including a couple videos) from James' site:

Atom Voyages - Outboard motor well for a Taipan 28 sailboat

Atom Voyages - Alberg 30 Outboard Well and Norvane Installation

Atom Voyages - Outboard Motor Well Demonstration

To be honest, I was unsure about the well when I bought the boat and thought I should get something with an inboard diesel. After two years, I can say that I'm perfectly happy with my outboard in a well for a boat this size and all its advantages:
1) prop aperture is filled and motor tilts for better sailing
2) swivels for side thrust, especially helpful in reverse
3) easy to remove for maintenance
4) opens up big space under cockpit for storage (helpful on small boats)
5) keeps engine/fuel out of living space
6) fewer thru-hulls
7) can double as dinghy motor
8) cheaper to install and replace!

There are probably a few more pros I'm forgetting and then the usual cons (gas on board, slightly less range/efficiency than a diesel, some might argue less reliable, etc.). This debate has been pretty well covered, especially by some of the Seawind owners who agree that the advantages of modern 4-stroke outboards for aux power on a boat that sails well outweigh the disadvantages -- then add cost into the equation.

I know you're already sold on the outboard but even I don't think I'd want one hanging off the back (aesthetics and practicality). So this is a long way of saying that if you think you'll be ok with a longer shaft and an articulating bracket, you will be more than satisfied with the performance and ease of operation if you put it in a well!

PS. My Tohatsu doesn't have the alternator but if it did I'd be surprised if it put out enough to really be useful.

Originally Posted by sully75

That's interesting...I hadn't really thought about it (seemed like a lot of work) but yeah, it would be much better. Did you do the work yourself?
...
Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about your well.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sully75

Thanks for all the suggestions.


1) outboard performance was really spotty but mostly because of a lot of cavitation in bigger swells (I had a fair amount of swells with not much wind on days when I had to make time, a really bad combination). But I have a fixed mount and a medium shaft outboard. If I get one of the really long shaft Tohatsus and put it on a moveable mount this can only get much, much better and in truth I made really good time with the setup the way it was. The thing is that when you are stressed out, the sound of cavitation is really awful. But another 10" of shaft and getting it in a better spot would help a ton.

That's the plan as of right now, tomorrow I might change my mind!

My boat is on the hard right now for some much needed maintenance. When I bought it, I painted the bottom, bought a new main, replaced the old, leaky, smelly 352 lb diesel with a 54 lb outboard, and went sailing for 3 years after it had sat on the hard for 5 years.

Here is my outboard situation. It goes pretty deep with 14" swing adjustable bracket (I'd buy a more heavy duty one next time) and 25" shaft outboard with internal or external fuel. Internal is nice if the wind is strong enough and all you need is something to get you out of the slip.

Btw, I didn't get the alternator but have 100 watts worth of solar charging two 12 volt batteries (thru a $12.00 controller) hooked up in parallel. No problems so far. Also have a 400 and 1500 watt inverter for AC Power on board for my laptop and to charge phones and power my Verizon Jetpack for internet.

I blew up (or it died) an 800 watt inverter on the 1st day of a 4 day sail last summer so I bought a spare this time.

[sully75]

Originally Posted by thomm225

My boat is on the hard right now for some much needed maintenance. When I bought it, I painted the bottom, bought a new main, replaced the old, leaky, smelly 352 lb diesel with a 54 lb outboard, and went sailing for 3 years after it had sat on the hard for 5 years.

Here is my outboard situation. It goes pretty deep with 14" swing adjustable bracket (I'd buy a more heavy duty one next time) and 25" shaft outboard with internal or external fuel. Internal is nice if the wind is strong enough and all you need is something to get you out of the slip.

That would be perfect except the windvane is right there

BTW since this thread has drifted a bit, if anyone has more opinions about the original topic I'd still love to hear them.