Bent Rudder Stock

[kungfoo]

Hello all,

'tis a grim day for us. We knew there was a slight deflection in our rudder post, but it was never bad enough to worry much about, and plenty strong. However, we didn't want to leave it that way forever.

There's a deflection of, call it 3 degrees, in a 2.75" OD, 2.25" ID (.25" Wall) 316 stainless rudder stock.

The rudder won't come out at the moment, presumably because the vessel has a captive-bearing system in the bottom and the bend can't get past it.

One of the things I'm considering is cutting off the rudder and just replacing the stock entirely. I've heard tell of removing the rudder stock by cutting all the way around the periphery and opening it up like a clam. I've also seen images of people chiseling out the stock/tabs.

Anyone have any wisdom they can share?

[stormalong]

First off, who built the boat and are they still in business? Can you get new rudder skins or maybe a new rudder?

You might be better off with a new rudder rather than rebuilding the old one.

I would not touch anything until you have a plan.

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by stormalong

First off, who built the boat and are they still in business? Can you get new rudder skins or maybe a new rudder?

You might be better off with a new rudder rather than rebuilding the old one.

I would not touch anything until you have a plan.

As much fun as it would be to go all Texas Chainsaw Massacre on the rudder post and figure it out on the back-end, we are trying to obtain better intelligence.

The original manufacturer isn't in business anymore, but we're trying to get a copy of the plans.

That being said, we should assume we're on our own. If that's the case, then we're still looking for any documentation, wisdom, examples, etc related to replacing rudder stock.

Another option might be to insert a solid rudder stock in that is welded in place and/or bolted and/or interference-fit after using a cylinder-honing system inside the rudder.

[more]

Originally Posted by kungfoo

Another option might be to insert a solid rudder stock in that is welded in place and/or bolted and/or interference-fit after using a cylinder-honing system inside the rudder.

No.No rudder must be from 1 piece for spade rudder
second always must say boat producer or if length of boat,type of boat.

cut your fiberglass skin from bented rudder,or make new skin from old rudder used for model. when clean old rudder use existed wing and weld on new ruder axel

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by more

No.No rudder must be from 1 piece for spade rudder
second always must say boat producer or if length of boat,type of boat.

cut your fiberglass skin from bented rudder,or make new skin from old rudder used for model. when clean old rudder use existed wing and weld on new ruder axel

But what drives that certainty? An interference fit + bolts + weld is clearly a VERY strong bond...why NOT do that? What goes wrong if you try that sort of thing?

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by more

No.No rudder must be from 1 piece for spade rudder
second always must say boat producer or if length of boat,type of boat.

cut your fiberglass skin from bented rudder,or make new skin from old rudder used for model. when clean old rudder use existed wing and weld on new ruder axel

PS: It sounds like you might also be recommending that we cut the old wings and weld new stock to the old wings...that's not crazy. We only have to open up a well-defined section (the stock itself). I'm adding that to my list of options.

I am still deeply curious about the deficiencies of inserting/bonding a solid core though.

[JoeRobertJr]

Hi, Kungfoo,

I recommend updating your profile with your boat type and your location. That can help others give you relevant answers.

I considered doing the clam-shell strategy for replacing the rudder stock on my boat. In the end, I did not trust that I could do that work myself to a quality level appropriate for such an important piece of the boat. Having a professional replace the stock but reuse the rudder was going to cost as much as a new rudder. I removed my rudder, sent it to Foss Foam in Florida. They made a mold, then broke open the old rudder, manufactured a new stock, and built a new rudder around that. I am not sorry I went that route.

Best wishes with your project.

[more]

Originally Posted by kungfoo

But what drives that certainty? An interference fit + bolts + weld is clearly a VERY strong bond...why NOT do that? What goes wrong if you try that sort of thing?

because from 1piece ss316 ruder broke,bend,galvanic corrosion like your on exact spot

[SailingHarmonie]

Without knowing what kind and model boat you have everybody is making up answers that might work on their boat. Why the mystery? It's kind of important if you actually want useful information.

[rognvald]

There's only one option based on the role of the rudder: replace. If it were my boat, I would cut the rudder stock, remove, split the rudder in two, replace with new shaft and re-glass. Otherwise, have one pre-fabricated by a specialist. Any repair in a saltwater environment would be suspect.
Rognvald

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Without knowing what kind and model boat you have everybody is making up answers that might work on their boat. Why the mystery? It's kind of important if you actually want useful information.

There's a bit of a rocky relationship with the manufacturer. He blames me for something that someone else tried to do (something that I managed to prevent them from doing). So far as I can tell, it is an utterly irrational stance, but that doesn't stop him.

For now, while we're trying to get details about construction, I'd prefer to just list it as a 50-foot monohull sailboat from 1991 with a 1" thick hull and a skeg.

Other than enlisting help from the manufacturer, how do vessel details help with replacing the rudder stock once the rudder has been cut out of the vessel?

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by rognvald

There's only one option based on the role of the rudder: replace. If it were my boat, I would cut the rudder stock, remove, split the rudder in two, replace with new shaft and re-glass. Otherwise, have one pre-fabricated by a specialist. Any repair in a saltwater environment would be suspect.
Rognvald

The vessel is on the hard, and replacement (or reenforcement) of the stock is clearly in the cards.

We're looking for information on how to accomplish any of these tasks.

[kungfoo]

Originally Posted by more

because from 1piece ss316 ruder broke,bend,galvanic corrosion like your on exact spot

Galvanic corrosion because you have two different runs of 316 stainless from two different mills? Do you think they galvanically matched the stainless when they welded the tabs to the stock? I was expecting that stainless encased in glass would be fine.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by kungfoo

The vessel is on the hard, and replacement (or reenforcement) of the stock is clearly in the cards.

We're looking for information on how to accomplish any of these tasks.

Hi K,
1. Cut rudder shaft
2. Remove rudder
3. Cut the rudder housing in half, laterally, into two pieces
4. Remove rudder and rudder frame
5. replace with new rudder shaft and cage
6. reposition new shaft/cage in housing(one half)
7. fill voids with high density pourable foam in each half/cure/sand fair
8. coat each half with epoxy thickened with hi Density filler
9. mate two halves together and tie with straps/clamps. Place added
weights on top(ie barbell weights; cure
10. fiberglass edges/seams with epoxy and 1708 Biaxial glass
11. fair seams with high density epoxy/filler
12. reglass entire surface on port/starboard with 1708(2 layers)
13. I added a Kevlar foot on the bottom of my rudder
14. Seal entire repair with epoxy then moisture barrier(epoxy)
15. Mount rudder/paint
With a new shaft assembly, it's as good as new. Did I miss something?
Good luck, Rognvald

[dannc]

I would recommend looking at the Morgan's Cloud website for information.

This article has an in depth article about rudder replacement, https://www.morganscloud.com/2020/03...-the-solution/ I think there are several articles if I remember correctly.

Some/most of the information on Morgan's Cloud is behind a pay wall but it is well worth the cost.

Foss and I think one other company are mentioned as rudder builders.