Beneteau Idylle 15.5 - potential project

[RubiconAg]

long time reader, first post...need help from the CF braintrust

I am 36 with a wife and 2 little ones. I grew up lake sailing with friends so I am not a novice but by no means an experienced captain, especially on salt. I have owned several bay fishing boats over the years and have a weekend place on the gulf. I'm the perpetual tinkerer, having built several custom vehicles, owned RV's, etc. The last few years I have been project-less due to diapers and bottles, which are now a thing of the past. I am looking for something that can satisfy my tinkering/project tendencies and be family oriented. Thus, sailing comes back into the picture.

I have an opportunity to pick up a badly neglected 86' Ben. 15.5. This is the second owner, they purchased it from Moorings in 95' and cruised through 2001. From 2001-2017 the boat saw little use and since 2017 has seen no use, been moored on a channel behind the current owner’s house. Something has the Perkins 4.236 locked up, there is a constant leak in the sunroof which has done a fair amount of interior damage, and the rigging and systems are all very dated. With that, the price might be right, where putting $15k-$30k into the boat as a project makes it feasible.

I have done enough research to know the uniqueness/quality of the boat and Frers design, and the potential it has especially for a family. I would fully expect that the next 2-5 years would be spent re-building most aspects of the boat. Time will be the biggest factor as I would be a weekend warrior, possibly hiring out some of the repairs while performing others myself (experienced electrician, woodworker, engine re-builder, and have access to all the tools to do so).

Questions:

1. Is the boat worth a rebuild? With the purchase and repairs I could potentially be all-in below a budget of $30k-$60k.
2. Other than the obvious listed above, are there issues that were inherent with the Idylle models that I should be aware of?
3. What would classify a boat as “to far gone” in your opinion?
4. I have previous experience in sailing the 30’-40’ range, is jumping up to 51’ a completely different animal? (I would fully expect to have a mentor/teacher run (even if paid) with me in the beginning. My close friend who is experienced in sailing would also be on board consistently.)
5. We will not be full time cruisers (maybe in 15 years) but I could see a week to two week long trip once or twice a year with local sailing along the Tx, La., Miss., Al., gulf coast in between. Is the 51’ size to much for local gulf/ICW mini-cruising and weekend use?

Any input is welcomed!

[Tetepare]

I wouldn’t take it if it were free.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I wouldn’t take it if it were free.

I've been refitting a boat that started in much better condition and 100% agree with Tetepare. This boat's not going to be a project, it's going to be a bad marriage.

[RubiconAg]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I wouldn’t take it if it were free.

Care to expand? Is it a time commitment thing? To much sunk cost? Was the boat not that great to begin with? Any light you can shed is welcomed!

[Checkswrecks]

Trust me in that I know the siren's song. btdt

First, I think that price is appropriate for a boat that could be sailed but is way behind on maintenance - a beater. Definitely not for one that has sat for that long, plus has a locked up motor. If you do an engine swap yourself it's going to cost you at least $7,000 for a rebuilt and you would already be into this project for more than that boat is be worth.

The rigging and life lines should be WAY overdue for replacement and a full set of those are going to be not much less in cost. My bet is that the sails are at least 24 years old (but time may've stopped if stored right) and same for every sheet and line aboard.

As the port lights are probably also at least 24 years old, they've probably been leaking and need to be replaced. Same with any wood or fabric beneath them. Count them and multiply times $200-$250 each (DIY with port lights on sale) plus the cost of the wood and fabrics. You're now WAY in the hole financially and haven't even started putting in the big work hours.

Boats not only keep water out, they hold it real well and with any sun heat the moist environment inside means the boat will be filled with mold in places you never imagined. Start with a set of cushions - materials alone if you can sew will cost you somewhere around $1500. You'll be shocked when you count how many cushions a boat like that has. With that much sitting, it's not much of a guess that bilge water has covered the sole at some point so you are looking at rebuilding/replacing the sole and a lot of cabinetry. If really lucky, you're "only" going to be sanding and refinishing for a very long time; hopefully not actually replacing and rebuilding. The back side of every panel where you can't reach is going to be moldy and you'll never be able to clean it. I've never had allergies and have had trouble breathing after a few hours in a boat like that. You want to gamble that you can get things clean enough for your young kids?

A warm moist environment like that means a high chance of corrosion in all the electrical connections, so re-wiring the boat.

We haven't gotten into potential core damage, gel coat, replacing EVERY piece of hose, rubber, and plastic, through hulls. . . .

Sorry for the reality check.

[Checkswrecks]

One more thought. If you paid yourself minimum wage and add that to the hours you think you will expend, and add to the price of the boat.

Is it worth the time from the kids?

[RubiconAg]

Originally Posted by Checkswrecks

Trust me in that I know the siren's song. btdt

First, I think that price is appropriate for a boat that could be sailed but is way behind on maintenance - a beater. Definitely not for one that has sat for that long, plus has a locked up motor. If you do an engine swap yourself it's going to cost you at least $7,000 for a rebuilt and you would already be into this project for more than that boat is be worth.

The rigging and life lines should be WAY overdue for replacement and a full set of those are going to be not much less in cost. My bet is that the sails are at least 24 years old (but time may've stopped if stored right) and same for every sheet and line aboard.

As the port lights are probably also at least 24 years old, they've probably been leaking and need to be replaced. Same with any wood or fabric beneath them. Count them and multiply times $200-$250 each (DIY with port lights on sale) plus the cost of the wood and fabrics. You're now WAY in the hole financially and haven't even started putting in the big work hours.

Boats not only keep water out, they hold it real well and with any sun heat the moist environment inside means the boat will be filled with mold in places you never imagined. Start with a set of cushions - materials alone if you can sew will cost you somewhere around $1500. You'll be shocked when you count how many cushions a boat like that has. With that much sitting, it's not much of a guess that bilge water has covered the sole at some point so you are looking at rebuilding/replacing the sole and a lot of cabinetry. If really lucky, you're "only" going to be sanding and refinishing for a very long time; hopefully not actually replacing and rebuilding. The back side of every panel where you can't reach is going to be moldy and you'll never be able to clean it. I've never had allergies and have had trouble breathing after a few hours in a boat like that. You want to gamble that you can get things clean enough for your young kids?

A warm moist environment like that means a high chance of corrosion in all the electrical connections, so re-wiring the boat.

We haven't gotten into potential core damage, gel coat, replacing EVERY piece of hose, rubber, and plastic, through hulls. . . .

Sorry for the reality check.

Thanks for the reply. Not a reality check at all. Actually everything that I anticipate. As I mentioned, figuring 2-5 years before ever hoisting a sail is what I would expect. The cost is very real but spread out over a long period is what makes it doable. (Financially the cost is real but this wouldn't be a huge burden on my family, we have done well, invest, and stay debt free)

I'm figuring new/rebuilt engine, cushions, some wood work, glass work, replacing most systems, electrical etc. This would be a long term project with the hope that in the end we would have a practically new boat, that something new would cost into the hundreds of thousands.

[RubiconAg]

Originally Posted by Checkswrecks

One more thought. If you paid yourself minimum wage and add that to the hours you think you will expend, and add to the price of the boat.

Like restoring an old car, the time is not calculable.

Originally Posted by Checkswrecks

Is it worth the time from the kids?

This is very valid, something the wife and I will have to discuss. Definitely there would be great opportunity to have the son learn some things during the re-fit. But yes, the time away from kids on weekends is of concern. Thanks for the point, hadn't really put that into the calculation.

[JPA Cate]

Rubicon,

Why don't you write out all the items you think need doing, and get estimates for what has to be purchased, as well as for the materials to do the upgrades. Put it on a spreadsheet, and then start adding up the hours to complete the jobs. With boats, what Jim does is take how long he thinks a job will take, double it, and then upscale it. So, 2 hrs., becomes 4, and the hrs. become days. In that form it is a conservative effort that provides for inevitable delays. It is not true for oil changes, but for jobs of exploration, where you haven't already done them countless times, and will be learning as you go. Endeavors like you're talking have a way of growing, too. If you can limit the urge to take on unnecessary projects with it, you'll more likely be successful.

Then think about those days where your kids are grow
ing up, maybe they're helping, maybe they're feeling sad Dad isn't with them.....
Those hours and days are also times not spent with your wife. Will she be there helping, like it's a project you do together? Or will she be somewhere feeling sad her partner is not with her?

It is something that the right people could do and it would all be okay, or not, and only the people involved can say for sure. Some can take on that kind of leap into the unknown; many prefer more security.

I would imagine you could sail the boat after it was seaworthy, but that's a lot of shallow water, it will not be the same as an ocean passage.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[RubiconAg]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Rubicon,

Why don't you write out all the items you think need doing, and get estimates for what has to be purchased, as well as for the materials to do the upgrades. Put it on a spreadsheet, and then start adding up the hours to complete the jobs. With boats, what Jim does is take how long he thinks a job will take, double it, and then upscale it. So, 2 hrs., becomes 4, and the hrs. become days. In that form it is a conservative effort that provides for inevitable delays. It is not true for oil changes, but for jobs of exploration, where you haven't already done them countless times, and will be learning as you go. Endeavors like you're talking have a way of growing, too. If you can limit the urge to take on unnecessary projects with it, you'll more likely be successful.

Then think about those days where your kids are grow
ing up, maybe they're helping, maybe they're feeling sad Dad isn't with them.....
Those hours and days are also times not spent with your wife. Will she be there helping, like it's a project you do together? Or will she be somewhere feeling sad her partner is not with her?

It is something that the right people could do and it would all be okay, or not, and only the people involved can say for sure. Some can take on that kind of leap into the unknown; many prefer more security.

I would imagine you could sail the boat after it was seaworthy, but that's a lot of shallow water, it will not be the same as an ocean passage.

Good luck with it.

Ann

All very valid points and definitely something to think about. In the past, re-rebuilding classic cars and jeeps, complete frame off restorations, and 1,000's of hours were easier with no kids and even with kids, it was in the garage, not at a boat yard. The time commitment is serious and does need to be calculated into family time. The wife will have to be bought in, if not, it will lead to much deeper and more importantly suffering, which I will not put my family in that situation. This is almost as important as the financial aspects of evaluating the project. Thanks for the clarity and gravity of what it means to those around me.

[Idylles15.5]

Don't be a big pussy go for it, lol no guts no glory.

[RubiconAg]

Originally Posted by Idylles15.5

Don't be a big pussy go for it, lol no guts no glory.

[Tillsbury]

Might be a fun project, but don't offer more than a very small number of 000s for the boat initially.

[MartinR]

Financially this is of course not viable.

But it may be fun if you like to tinker with things and you will learn a lot. Costs will be way higher than 15-30k, but not insurmountable if you are willing to go looking for second hand stuff and put time into restoring things instead of replacing them.
Used sails for example can be had for very little money. Bearings in sheaves can be replaced instead of buying the whole replacement sheave, and so on.

[ronstory]

An alternative idea is look around for boat that has be extensively refitted but it's current owner for X dollars and buy it complete and ready-to-go for a third to half of X. Then you can go sailing immediately and continue to develop your sailing skills.

Then your kids will remember the fun sailing the boat and not scraping mold and old varnish, R&R rigging and wiring. Plus have a motor that spins is nice feature.

IMO, buying completely refitted boat at the FMV is the best deal out there. I wish I had done that. lol