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Old 24-11-2010, 09:53   #1
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I am starting to reconsider my thoughts on purchasing a 37' to 40' Beneteau. There is so much conflicting information regarding production, coastal, offshore, bluewater boats that it is hard to comprehend whether the Beneteau's are a capable and quality boat. Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers.... Though, my feeling is that Beneteau has nailed the price, value, features vs. performance in production boats.

I'm trying to understand the Beneteau product lines or models over the years and whether one model, year, size stands out from the rest. From what I can tell there are: First, Oceanis, and numbered series. What are the differences, especially with older boats (mid 80's to current)? Are they the same hull, construction, with First having more racing/performance gear, mumbered series with cruising accomodiations? Oceanis??? For each, are there particular model years that have proven to be better designed and built? Are there models to avoid entirely.

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Don
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Old 24-11-2010, 10:30   #2
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MarkJ has almost completed a circumnavigation in an Oceanis 393 Our Life At Sea - Sailing Yacht 'Sea Life' and his boat does not have in mast furling.
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Old 24-11-2010, 10:45   #3
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Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers....
Being that biaised from the start , why bother.

Firstly as to Peeling veeners, I ve had two Benes, for many years from new, never experienced this veneer problem, as to European veneers, sorry "teak" etc....

As to rigging you can have any type you want, as to under sized standing rigging complete BS.

Listen theres no point including boats you have dismissed already.

The fact is Beneteaus will take you wherever you want to go, if you are a good enough sailer of course....

Millions have been built over the years, most are still in use and used in som eof the most difficult coastal and oceans in the world. bluewater debates are just bumfluff debates, completely irrelevant.


Dave
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Old 24-11-2010, 12:21   #4
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I’m not a Banned expert, admirer, nor detractor. Personally, I’m not overly fond of them.

As I understand the general concept:

The FIRST series are racer/cruiser sailboats, with a higher emphasis on the racing aspects.

The NUMBERED and OCEANIS series are more traditional cruising boats, and handicap (PHRF) club racers.
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Old 24-11-2010, 12:59   #5
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I never was very fond of their construction practices but then there is virtually no difference in price, design, construction or quality between any of the major production boat companies. As a result, people choose a particular mfg more because of marketing and advertising than any substantive reason.

Consequently, you have seen lots of conflicting opinions and will no doubt get responses fairly divided on the pros/cons of any manufacturer or their "tweeks" between models.

If you really need a bluewater boat, why get one that needs extensive modification to barely qualify?
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:12   #6
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Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
I am starting to reconsider my thoughts on purchasing a 37' to 40' Beneteau. There is so much conflicting information regarding production, coastal, offshore, bluewater boats that it is hard to comprehend whether the Beneteau's are a capable and quality boat. Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers.... Though, my feeling is that Beneteau has nailed the price, value, features vs. performance in production boats.

I'm trying to understand the Beneteau product lines or models over the years and whether one model, year, size stands out from the rest. From what I can tell there are: First, Oceanis, and numbered series. What are the differences, especially with older boats (mid 80's to current)? Are they the same hull, construction, with First having more racing/performance gear, mumbered series with cruising accomodiations? Oceanis??? For each, are there particular model years that have proven to be better designed and built? Are there models to avoid entirely.

Thanks,
Don
I've chartered two Beneteau Oceanis yachts from the early to middle 2000's. They are good boats. They are not fitted out to luxurious standards but -- so what? In exchange for that, you save a ton of money. What you also get is sparkling sailing performance, notwithstanding the iron keels. Neither yacht we chartered had in-mast furling. The rig is somewhat underspecced compared to more expensive, but I've never heard of anyone having any problems with Bene rigs.

I paid much more in order to have a more beautiful boat, but I happened to have the money. If I had been on a stricter budget, I would not have hesitated to buy a Bene.

Of all the different qualities which are important in a yacht -- and every yacht is a big compromise -- surely sailing qualities are by far the most important. If I were on a budget and were offered a boat which had a few cheapie compromises in the fitout but sailed like stink for half the price of a so-called "proper" boat -- I would not hesitate!
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:47   #7
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As a result, people choose a particular mfg more because of marketing and advertising than any substantive reason.
Thats a very cynical perspective. I know the Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, Dufour,Gibsea,etc ranges very well, I ve been on most of the current ranges at various boatshows and Ive sailed quite a number. There are significant differences between the ranges and manufacturers.

For example I would rate in terms of build Jeanneau, Beneteau, Dufour, Bavaria. Beneteau for example has stayed away from saildrives which I personally dont like, Jeanneau has been a fan of traditional galleys etc.Beneteau has better Nav station layouts etc, There is a lot of difference and its not based on marketing.


The fact is that if you compare alomost all production boats right from Oyster , via Halberg rassy dow to Hunters. There is way more in common then difference. but the difference are quite significant when you look at them

People mix up price points/value and expectation all the time.

Dave
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Old 24-11-2010, 14:07   #8
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"The fact is Beneteaus will take you wherever you want to go, if you are a good enough sailer of course....

Millions have been built over the years, most are still in use and used in som eof the most difficult coastal and oceans in the world. bluewater debates are just bumfluff debates, completely irrelevant."

This about sums it up but a few points, if the rig is not optimum size would this mean that for cruising purposes it is more suiteable as far as understress easier to handle speed not being number one concern.
The number one problem as far as I am concerned is storage particularly fuel tank size but again this can be a + if $ are concened as you are less inclined to fire the engine up at every opportunity so less money spent on fuel and you might even sail the sailboat unlike many I see that seem to be always motoring. While I have read many times that you need to spend a great deal of money to make these type of boats cruise ready and so why not buy a more suiteable boat (expensive) what gets left out is the fact that the more expensive boat still comes without many of the cruising needs. So you then need to upgrade it as well, the cheaper boat fitted out with just what YOU want on it will work out cheaper in the long run.
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Old 24-11-2010, 14:13   #9
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I'm "PRO" Beneteau, but I also own one.. We've traveled thousands of miles in ours over the last 7 years, and still, the idea of selling her gets to me at times.. But then again, ours is a FIRST 42 and an owners version and somewhat outside the norm for the Production Beneteau..
I dont quite understand your concern about an Iron Keel.. Ours is Iron, about 10 thousands pounds worth.. seven years ago we sealed it with a two part epoxy barrior coat and applied bottom paint.. pulled the boat last year and except for a couple scrapes where we've run aground, not a problem with it at all..
The rigging can be set up anyway you want it and ours is Cutter Rigged with an additional baby stay.. and its some pretty beefy stuff, both standing and running..
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Old 24-11-2010, 14:35   #10
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if $ are concened as you are less inclined to fire the engine up at every opportunity so less money spent on fuel and you might even sail the sailboat unlike many I see that seem to be always motoring.
Two items I'd like to address..
First, We just returned recently from a couple months out exploring the southern California Coast and the Islands there. From San Francisco, we had a total of maybe10 days where we could sail over 2 months.. The wind would pick up in the afternoon and die by 5 or 6 in the evening.. so It was a plus to have a motor and a boat that will motor at 6 to 7 knots..
And Second, I constantly hear people making the statement that speed is not a concern when they are in cruising mode.. You mostly hear this from those that have never been out cruising but heres an example...
Comming back to San Francisco from Southern California is a "BASH" into the north-west waves and wind..EXCEPT, every now and then, a southerly starts to blow and everything switches...But they dont often blow for long.. we had a 3 day window to ride the southerly back to San Francisco.. We did that 3 day window with over 200 per day with winds not much over 15 knots from San Diego to San Francisco..
The speed we were able to take advantage of gave us a better trip overall..
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Old 24-11-2010, 14:50   #11
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Ten days in two months is not the norm in most parts of the world as in the globe.
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:36   #12
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Randyonr3,

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I dont quite understand your concern about an Iron Keel..
The concensus is that an iron keel transmists groundings to the hull potentially causing more damage than the same impact to a lead keel. Lead is softer and potentially absorbs the forces of the impact.

Don
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:48   #13
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:53   #14
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I appreciate the opinions expressed. It wasn't my intent to start another debate on the pros/cons of Beneteaus. The question I keep coming back to is deciphering the differences between First, Oceanis, and numbered boats and which model, year,... For example, searching yachtworld for a 37' Beneteau, there are: Beneteau 37 (2008-2011), Beneteau 373 (~2003-2008), First 36.7 (~2002-2003), First 375 (~1985-1986), Oceanis 37 (2008-2009), Oceanis 370 (~1990-1993)....

I do understand the First series is aimed for more performance sailing and racing. From what I can tell, these tend to have larger/performance rigging, larger sails, larger winches, less accomodiations below, less tankage... What is not clear is whether for the same size/year are the hulls the same/different, same/different keels, larger mast/sails and so on. I'm assuming the Oceanis line is rebranding the cruising series; likewise for Jeanneau, Dufor....

Beneteau's brand dilution (similar to GM) is enough reason to avoid them all-together.
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:34   #15
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Beneteau's brand dilution (similar to GM) is enough reason to avoid them all-together.
Brand dilution only matters to companies trying to maintain a high margin due to brand. In other words, the sailboat that's only marginally better than another and yet costs three times as much.

Beneteau makes its money with much lower margins, much higher value for the money spent. Its customer base is going to be comprised of those more interested in value than status.

Are you buying a boat or a brand? Digital cruisers here on CF seem far more impressed with brand than real cruisers out there on the water.
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