Back/ Baby Stays

[delmarrey]

Continued from: CIRCUMNAVIGATE BENETEAU 47.3

I thought I would start a new thread so as not to confuse with the Beneteau 47.3

Irwinsailor, Thanks for the offer of the picture, but not necessary.

I've been experimenting with this vessel to see which sail plan works best, in strong winds, still using the same mast. It's a tall rig, 52' off the deck with 39' between the stay deck plates and a 15' "J" dim. I need a new main and want to go to a roller furling headsail. So I'm playing around before I spend the money and find out it's a bad setup. I've read a few places where it's not good to use a furling for a storm jib. So, I have been trying out the back/baby stay idea. With the main reefed and the a small back sail it balanced out very well and heeled at 15-20º in a 25-30 kn wind with very little to no weather helm.
The wind here in the Sound changes in a matter of a few minutes. It can be a light breeze one minute (praying for more wind) to 25-30 kn before you can get a sandwitch made. It's not fun trying to douse a genoa in white caps. So I'm looking for a quick change set up, single handed.

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[Alan Wheeler]

A little out of my depth here delmarrey, so I am only reflecting the advice already given to me by my Sail maker and Rigging specialist. I am fitting new sails and a furler. I was also concerned from reading about heavy Air's and Furlers. But as I have been told, not ALL furlers are created Equal and the technology of Furlers today have changed. Most due to those demands. Where sailors are using the same headsail for a wide range of conditions. So it seems that some fulers will handle high wind conditions. Once you get to a Storm situation though, I would still imagine furling right in and using a storm tri or what ever the requirment. But that would be a sevear situation.
Just my two cents, which due to our exchange rate, doesn't equate to much really.
Wheels

[Jeff H]

The problem with using a furled up jib in heavy air is not so much about the furlers as it is about the sail itself. There are several aspects that limit the utility of a partially rolled up sail for really heavy going. To begin with, a properly designed wide range genoa by necessity needs to be made of a light weight sail cloth or it will not be very useful in lighter winds (below 8-10 knots) because their weight will overly flatten the sail and take any shape out of it. Heavy weather sails, by necessity, need to be made of a low stretch fabric and so tend to be made from cloths that are too heavy in weight for use on an AP genoa.

There is also the furler issue of creep. In heavier winds, especially when on a beam to a close reach, it is important to have a very flat sail in order to minimize heel and knockdowns. While the new foam luff jibs work pretty well at delivering a flat sail when rolled to up to 15% of the overall sail area, over time (several hours or less) the leech and foot of the sail slowly move towards each other as the layers of cloth on the furler slip over each other. This process of slipage powers up the sail pretty quickly and makes it unsuitable in very heavy conditions. As this fullness becomes excessive, the sail needs to be furled further which locks in the fullness and can damage the sail where the leech now chafes on the exposed sail cloth. The sailmakers here tell me that they see a lot of sails that are sawn through in the previously reefed areas of the sail. In a furling mainsail, this creep is more of a problem as the sail can jamb in the slot.

The other point is that a rolled up headsail creates a lot of windage. In almost all of the new heavy weather sailing strategies it is recommended that in really heavy going the genoa needs to be stripped from the headstay since even comparatively stable boats will take a knock down under bare poles and a furled up genoa in 40-50 knots of wind. As long as the headstay needs to be stripped, it would seem that a dedicated storm jib would make a lot of sense. For offshore boats, these often use straps that go around the furler foil as well as a luff tape so that the sail offers the advantages of both a hanked on jib and a furlable headsail.

Regards,
Jeff

[Alan Wheeler]

Thanks Jeff, that makes great reading and has explained a lot too me.
Wheels