Baba 30: too much load to single-hand?

[Jim Cate]

My Jim helmed a Baba 30 for a friend during a race for old design ships in San Francisco some years ago, when he, at the time, had a S & S 30, a lighter displacement fin keeler. On his return to dock, he commented to me what a heavy helm it had, and he perhaps naturally, preferred the lighter helm on his Yankee 30.

OOps! Apologizing here for a lapse in Ann's memory! The boat she refers to was a Rafiki 37, not a Baba (no offense, Mike!).

I've zero experience on a Baba of any size, and offer no advice about one.

But I will chime in about the leading of lines to the cockpit. I too tend to not advise this on most boats. The added complexity and especially the added friction outweigh any advantages in my experience. Going on deck ( leaving the alleged safety of the cockpit) is part of a sailors normal activity, and doing so routinely means that when it is really necessary you will do so with practiced confidence.

I also wonder about this "load" issue. As others have said, rig and helm loads are only loosely related to displacement. Helm loads are more related to rudder design than displacement, and some double enders do have unbalanced barn door rudders that take a lot of force to turn... dunno about the Baba. Rig loads, or more specifically sheet loads are mostly related to sail area, and the Baba's sail plan doesn't boast big sails at all, so I think you'll be ok there.

They are pretty boats, and the one larger one that I've been aboard had nice joinery. No comment on the layout...

Good luck in finding one with glass decks (or any one at all in your market). I'm a great fan of teak decks... on other folks' boats, and support your desire to avoid them!

Jim

[wesevans]

The Baba30 would be an easy boat to single hand. This would be especially true if you have the jib and main on roller furling. Being of a heavy displacement is actually an advantage to single handling. Just make sure you have a good stout dodger. Previous owner of 37' Tayana a similar boat.

[LadyStardust]

I sailed my baba 30 for many years single handed and loved it, it's easy to handle, the cutter rig makes it easy to manage in big winds. I sailed from the Uk to the Caribbean in it. Reversing is always a problem on these boats, but can be managed with a few tricks and some experience. I now have a baba 40 and sail that single handed over large distances with ease. I'm 60 and don't feel challenged with the rig, plenty of winches around make life easy. Loads of space to live aboard.
There's a lot of nonsense talked about teak decks on these boats, they can't leak as the are glued to solid fiberglass decks, all that can happen is the water gets under the deck and gets inside through the deck fittings/chain plates. This would happen without teak if the boat isn't maintained. I would think most baba 30's will have had their tanks replaced by now, but do check, unlike some of the bigger babas the 30's tank justs lifts out easily. My boat was from the 70's and had osmosis, as did many boats from that period, so watch for that. I have seen lots of babas with wooden masts and the owners love them, they can't see what all the fuss is about. There is no standard mast on the babas as different ones were fitted and different sizes were available if requested.
The varnish work outside takes a bit of tlc, but that's what makes them so pretty, many people just let the caprails and hatches go grey, or use cetol/oils which is a lower maintenance option.
The baba yahoo group has a wealth of information over on yahoo.
Paul C

[Kenomac]

Baba 30 = a poor choice in 2019 unless one likes to work on a boat rather than sail and enjoy a boat. Plan on dumping loads of money and elbow grease into the boat... a 30ft Catalina would make much better sense and cost much less to maintain and be easier to sail.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Pete17C

I've only seen the lines run aft on the deck. For halyards, you just put a turning block near the base of the mast, and a winch/cleat/clutch (as needed/preferred) on the cabin top where you can get to them. Reefing lines were similar.

thanks Pete!

a block near the base of the mast and a winch.cleat/clutch on the cabin top:

yes, though.... i helped a friend replace/move a clutch on the cabin top a few years ago; and if i remember correctly, we screwed through/tightened through to the inside of the boat with the headliners off. (that's when i discovered the wonders of a flex-head spanner!!! ) or maybe my memory is going? could be...

in any case, i'm going to look into the possibiilty of not moving lines aft as, from reading in this thread, it may be better not to do so...

thank you!

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Baba 30 = a poor choice in 2019 unless one likes to work on a boat rather than sail and enjoy a boat. Plan on dumping loads of money and elbow grease into the boat... a 30ft Catalina would make much better sense and cost much less to maintain and be easier to sail.

Hi Ken! thanks. yes, these boats are old... all of them. and they require care and updates, time and money. from this perspective, the baba is a very poor choice.

it is not because i love all that teak (i know that one MUST keep up with it or else the boat looks shoddy). it is because i've been on different small boats and find that i am sensitive to the motion (boats must float but i feel better when they do not bob or pound - yuk bucket alert). also, i can also get a bit clausto from cramped space below. so a certain level of comfort is important to me.

and i'm not "stuck" on the baba. i just find that, for the moment, it best fits my definition of sailing, i.e., living aboard and slow cruising (about anywhere).

beyond this, my feeling is that having a boat that can survive a storm (heaving to well, in this case) is not just a plus anymore. kleenex boats generally don't fair well, either that or the crew doesn't fair well...

and there is something else to consider: kleenex boats pollute. they sit and die in boatyards because they are not worth fixing. a solid, well-built boat that has been loved from owner to owner will find a new owner and not add to the End-of-Life-Boat (ELB) problem.


that said, there ar other boats that would fit the bill. for instance, the pacific seacraft is also possibility for me... though would have to jump to the 31 (which tends to be much more of an investment) as i felt a bit cramped on the 27.


am open Ken. still searching...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OOps! Apologizing here for a lapse in Ann's memory! The boat she refers to was a Rafiki 37, not a Baba (no offense, Mike!).

Hey! I resemble that comment .

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But I will chime in about the leading of lines to the cockpit. I too tend to not advise this on most boats. The added complexity and especially the added friction outweigh any advantages in my experience. Going on deck ( leaving the alleged safety of the cockpit) is part of a sailors normal activity, and doing so routinely means that when it is really necessary you will do so with practiced confidence.

Agreed. I know it’s all the rage to lead everything back to the cockpit. It has its benefits, but a well designed cruising boat should include a good work area around the mast. Going forward is just part of normal sailing. Plus, the added complexity of all that additional blocks and clutches and cleats, with all the additional friction and forces, multiplies the possible failure points. Not to mention all the extra line that inevitably seems to clutter up cockpit-lead boats.

To me, a good working area at the mast is superior and safer. And it ensures that WHEN all hell breaks loose and you MUST go up on deck, that you’ll be well practiced.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I also wonder about this "load" issue. As others have said, rig and helm loads are only loosely related to displacement. Helm loads are more related to rudder design than displacement, and some double enders do have unbalanced barn door rudders that take a lot of force to turn... dunno about the Baba. Rig loads, or more specifically sheet loads are mostly related to sail area, and the Baba's sail plan doesn't boast big sails at all, so I think you'll be ok there.

Well, for the record, the Rafiki 37 does have a nicely balanced barn door rudder . It should never feel heavy. If it is that's because the rig is out of balance, which is something that is easy to feel with the tiller . I don’t know about the Baba, but I have to think that Mr Perry knows a thing or two about designing boats. I’d trust he got it right.

BTW, while I’m a fan of these types of boats (obviously), I too would not get fixated by them. I can’t speak for your local market Wolf, but there seems to be a lot of good boats out there these days. Personally, I would focus on what is in my immediate surrounds. If that includes a Baba, then great. But don’t disregard all the others just because most look look like tupperware with keels .

[boatman61]

Advice on a 110v moving to a 240v area may be useful to Wolfie as well.. re shore power for charging etc.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The Baba is a nice choice as long as you are up for the teak maintenance outside. Finding one without teak decks may be a bit hard, not sure. The Tashiba 31 I think is pretty much the same boat and I've seen them without teak decks. So consider that.
My friend had, and lived aboard, his Baba 30. Great boat.

Baba and Tashiba were both built by the same yard: Ta Shing. One of the best in the world. I heard some early Baba's were built somewhere else though.

Regarding the tanks I can't remember what the situation is as far as getting them out on the Baba. They could be fine. But worth looking closely at. When you survey, maybe you could get a sample out of a tank, taken from the tank bottom, to assess condition, rust etc. (Plastic syringe and clear tubing) Any old boat is suspect for tanks.

Tashiba 31: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/tashiba-31

Yes, oh yes, the Tashiba 31 is quite a boat! Perry says it is an entire other beast (or something to this effect); i imagine because the way the hull is shaped and the fin keel (as opposed to long keel). these boats are drool-some treasures! (a bit more expensive usually too)

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Advice on a 110v moving to a 240v area may be useful to Wolfie as well.. re shore power for charging etc.

Step down transformer,works for me.

[wolfgal]

i'm just beginning to catch up on reading these posts and am learning a whole lot!!!

for instance, it is so interesting how so many of you advise against leading the lines aft (or to at least try it out at the mast first). it is great to learn about the pluses/minuses/adaptations so many pointed out. many thanks for this!

fatigue has come up over and over and over.... yes. Zee has a comfortable ride on her big formosa and sails with the headsail and the mizzen. not bad! (sure would like to see a picture of Zee while sailing. pirate woman alert!). the thing is, i really do not want a huge boat on my own. so a small boat with good motion is a priority. and to fend off fatigue: autopilot, wind vane, taking short trips (with places to dodge to, if possible along the way) and/or crew...

and yes, even an overnighter can be exhausting. i watched a video that Patrick Laine did where he explained how the wake-up-every-20-min was really, really tough on him "at his age" (and he has hair and looks pretty fit!) and how he was able to change that to every 45 minutes once he got his AIS transmitter/receiver with alarm...

rig and weather helm and balance: i really appreciate all this points. thanks!

teak decks: yes, i am doing as i can to avoid them...

and yes, spaghetti and tangles and breaking points and, and, and falling down, falling off... ok everyone, i promise to start reeeeeaaaaaal slow

spaghetti: if it helps any, know that i did my dayskipper with someone who turned me into a maniac about coiling. he had been in the royal navy UK, and constant coiling was expected. i didn't rebel in the least. i enjoy doing the little coil thing (how is it called?) in a flat spiral with the spring lines and such when docked. i find those spirals so beautiful. they compliment any boat.

actually, the 80 percent rule (learned it a few years ago) really helps me from going overboard with perfection, from wearing myself to the bone. i find that this rule does give me the clarity i need to focus and make good decisions. and then, when things do go sideways, the needed adrenaline is (usually) available to take over in overdrive mode.

i'm still reading! thank you everyone!!!


wolfie

[daletournier]

I respectfully disagree with Jim and others regarding lines. My last and current boat have all lines running to the cockpit,never had a problem and wouldnt have it any other way.

The more often you leave the cockpit the greater chance of an accident. The cockpit is a safe and secure place particularly in bad weather. Yes sometimes I go on deck ,when i have to ,and can do so confindently but nature and fatigue arent a good mix, Id rather stay in the cockpit.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Baba 30 is a small boat and should give no trouble to anybody who knows how to sail. It is a small boat no matter what. Furthermore the fore is split which makes sail handling this much easier.


My worry would be in the design, like say the vast wooden carpets I have seen on all the samples I have looked up. Plenty of wood = plenty of maintenance EVERY YEAR. Also anything that leaks now will leak for ever.


I know this is an easy and safe boat. Minus that immense bowsprit, I could almost have one.


Still, for the same money, you can buy in europe a much lighter, same sturdy classic, less leaking boat without a bowsprit. I have nearly gotten and OE 32 for EUR11k two weeks ago. Nearly nearly. Look at boats like OE32 (or PS, in the US) compare to Babas ... think, think again. Then get something.


Cheers,
b.

Barn, you are in Europe too?

just missing out is a bummer. i recently missed out on a fantastic deal on a Great Dane 28 (really nicely redone by her owners, great folks too!). i wavered and it "sold" and then, months later, the owners told me there was trouble with the sale...; and so i got moving again (as finding a place to berth the boat is so tough here, especially since the marina in dieppe has a slippery waiting list), and then bingo, the buyer came through with the sale. the GD28 is one of the best made boats i've found over here...though a bit tight in terms of a liveaboard (this is another reason for which i wavered).

i've looked high and low and at many european boats and did not come across the OE 32. will check it out!

thank you

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Step down transformer,works for me.

True enough.. for the charger..
However for any EU appliances such as electric kettle, electric heater etc would she not need to install an inverter of appropriate wattage as well to run off her battery bank as 110v outlets will not be any use.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

True enough.. for the charger..
However for any EU appliances such as electric kettle, electric heater etc would she not need to install an inverter of appropriate wattage as well to run off her battery bank as 110v outlets will not be any use.

Most chargers will run iff 110v or 220v, as will computers etc. But yes stuff like keetles etc need a invertor, but on a boat the size of baba 30 i wouldnt run heavy drawing appliances due to limited battery bank size. I have a 3000w 220 inverter but we hardly use it, mostly we get by on 12v and 110v.

One issue with a step down transform is it dosent solve the hertz issue for people that need to run electric motors, ac fans, washing machines etc, but this wont be a problem for wolfgal.

The 110v wont be an issue,im a australian that grew up with 220-240v ,most places i go are 220v, yet my current and last boat are 110v, but then again i hardly plug in. 12v and 110v get me by just fine.