Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

[zboss]

Originally Posted by colemj

Alternately, if you are running a NMEA2000 system, just get a NMEA2000 rudder feedback unit of any make/model and it will work with everything.

Mark

Is this true? We had to switch to a Garmin unit because Garmin has a proprietary rudder feedback control that does not go over NMEA2000, hence why we had to switch out to the Garmin. I do know it goes over a different cable and does not go to my nmea 2000 backbone.

However, maybe I am understanding it wrong, perhaps the simrad unit did not output nmea2000 sentences?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by colemj

Alternately, if you are running a NMEA2000 system, just get a NMEA2000 rudder feedback unit of any make/model and it will work with everything.



Mark

Don't think so. Many modern APs have directly connected rudder sensors and will not process the NMEA messages.


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[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by nauticalnomad

I was meaning to steer away from Raymarine or general stuff from the chandlery.

I disagree. Raymarine has the best network worldwide and builds as good kit as another. Their prices are lower because of their larger audience.

Don't sell Ray short; I just outfitted my boat with a second AP, the ACP 400 hydraulic and frankly, its tops.

[colemj]

All APs have direct connectors to their units for analog rudder reference units, but most will also take this information off an N2K bus.

Garmin lists their GFR10 as a nmea2000 device, as well as lists a large number of 2-wire and 3-wire analog sensors from other manufactures that can be used with their APs. They appear to be most generous in this regard.

Simrad, B&G and Furuno take N2K rudder data.

It appears that Raymarine does not take N2K input (as far as I can tell), and can only use the RM unit, but anyone putting RM on their boat deserves whatever compatibility problems they get.

Mark

[zboss]

So I guess back to the OP's question... yes, very happy with my Garmin Autopilot Head/Control Unit and equally happy with my jeffa direct drive unit, which is compact, energy efficient (and you can change its energy utilization profile to meet your needs) and so on.

There is one annoying aspect to the Garmin unit that may be better in the Reactor series or in other manufacturers - my autopilot doesn't do quite a good a job when running vs. reaching unless I tweak the gain settings for each. This is especially true in a following sea where the autopilot can round up a bit more occasionally. It always recovers but the boat tends to wallow more than we like and can give the boat an uncomfortable motion. By updating the gain we smooth this out but then we have to change it back when we are done our run. Its a pain because its located in the "dealer setup" area of the autopilot and not the usual config areas.

[colemj]

From what I read on them, Garmin APs do not have adaptive steering algorithms and sell mostly to the power boat market where these algorithms are not generally used.

Do you have any general, and easily accessed, gain settings like RM does for "high medium low" without going into the dealer setup menus?

For others considering a new AP, Simrad, B&G, NKE, and I believe Furuno (and probably others) all have excellent adaptive steering algorithms that use wind, rate compass and speed data to continually adjust the steering parameters, as well as do a good job of predictive anticipation, throughout all sea conditions and points of sail. It is quite impressive seeing counter rudder being applied well before the boat actually starts to fall off down a wave top or round up in the trough - leaving the boat following a straight track.

Mark

[zboss]

Originally Posted by colemj

From what I read on them, Garmin APs do not have adaptive steering algorithms and sell mostly to the power boat market where these algorithms are not generally used.

Do you have any general, and easily accessed, gain settings like RM does for "high medium low" without going into the dealer setup menus?

For others considering a new AP, Simrad, B&G, NKE, and I believe Furuno (and probably others) all have excellent adaptive steering algorithms that use wind, rate compass and speed data to continually adjust the steering parameters, as well as do a good job of predictive anticipation, throughout all sea conditions and points of sail. It is quite impressive seeing counter rudder being applied well before the boat actually starts to fall off down a wave top or round up in the trough - leaving the boat following a straight track.

Mark

There is... its an energy management selection. I found it makes that it does not make that big of a difference.

I believe the new reactor series the OP is talking about takes it into the next generation and incorporates some of the features you mention.

[leftbrainstuff]

Pros and cons are:

For higher power needs hydraulic units use less energy and are more durable than linear actuators.

Hydraulics tend to be more robust and have longer cycles to failure than linear actuators. Hydraulics also can be tuned for damping and consume no energy doing so.

A linear actuator is a simpler system and will typically take up less space than a hydraulic system.

The threshold for choosing hydraulic over a linear actuator seems to be around the 40' mark for cruisers. You are right at that threshold.

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[colemj]

LBS, to be clear, you are talking about mechanical linear actuators? There are also hydraulic linear actuators.

In my experience, the hydraulic LAs use more power than the mechanical ones.

Mark

[sailah]

This seems like an ideal thread to continue with my question.

This spring I updated the main chartplotter to a Garmin 942XS. I have RM ST60+ instruments and a Simrad hydraulic autopilot (AP11 headunit, J300X junction box, RFU (not sure the model), and Simrad HLD2000 MK2L drive unit (split pump and cylinder).

I have all the instruments talking now over seatalk1 to seatalkng to NMEA2000. I wired the autopilot up to Garmin over NMEA1083 and so far the land test and NMEA test on Simrad check out fine. I get XTE, heading etc on Simrad that I never had before.

Just trying to plan out my next move. Would be ideal to keep Garmin interface and buy a Garmin headunit and computer like the Reactor series.

Would a hydraulic Garmin computer drive my Simrad drive unit fine? I just rebuilt it with all new seals, it fits and works well in the space. Has the pop solenoid to disengage hydraulics when autopilot is not engaged. The drive unit just has +/- for motor and +/- for solenoid. Would think most drive units are similar.

I would likely need to swap RFU but specifically wondering about if I also need to swap over a Garmin drive which I would prefer not to do.

Thx

[Neptune's Gear]

The drive will work off any AP computer that drives reversing pumps of the same or more amperage. The stall current on the hld2000 is around 42amps. Your j300x can’t do that much, and that’s one of the reasons it was replaced with the AC42.