At what point does a boat start to get too big? (family, kids, maintenance concerns)

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I think in some respects you're thinking about these things a little bit wrong. Above a certain size and quality, cruising boats will have a mostly similar level of complexity, ie. electric/hydraulic winches, furling and bowthruster, watermaker, generator, electric or vacuflush toilets, etc.

Large boats aren't more work to maintain because of extra length or displacement (for the most part, assuming the physical structure is sound). It has more to do with systems that will fail. I doubt that what you need to worry about is one or two more bilge pumps, but rather one or two more heads. Or a galley with a dishwasher, ice maker, wine fridge, trash compactor, vs. a simpler galley setup. Having hidden pop up entertainment systems, rather than a bulkhead mounted tv.

Most of the inflation that size is going to give you is in cost. Sails, rigging, deck gear is all bigger and more expensive. But size often gives you more room to access things, making it easier for you to diy, or reducing hours for a professional.

All that being said, if they're properly set up, having a bunch of heads, a big redundant instrument package, etc. gives you backups when things inevitably do fail.

It sounds like you have a healthy budget, and are interested in high end cruising builders, so you probably don't have to worry too much about things like hull osmosis, soggy decks, or leaky tankage.

I'm guessing you are liking Amels and the admiral is looking at the new Hylas designs. I'm curious where you are located that getting marine stainless work is cheap...

As I read the original post I was also thinking that the OP should be looking at Amel and Hylas! We nearly bought a Super Maramu but in the end purchased and were very happy with a new Hylas 49 (#53). That was 15 years ago and both Amel and Hylas have evolved in the intervening years. I don't think you will go wrong with either.

Yes dog hair will get everywhere but that is a constant. You will be cleaning strainers (from the shower sumps) regularly anyway. If you are living aboard, the maintenance demands of a mid 40 to mid 50's boat are just part of your routine. If you are living far away from the boat, or trying to balance boat chores with a full time job, it can become a major headache.

My current boat is larger - 72' and I don't live aboard but I live nearby and don't work. The maintenance is actually easier than the Hylas because spaces are substantially larger and better laid out. I am less flexible than I was 15 years ago and appreciate a walk in engine room etc. - I should add I switched from sail to motor!

~Alan

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

I am in the camp with Mike O'Reilly, how small can you go. Simplicity is the key. The dinghy, you have to be able to stow/launch a dinghy easily.

Bigger boat you get to have properly designed and easily used davits - some even have a proper deck crane.
This allows you to have a real dinghy/tender, not those little blow up play toys you have on smaller boats

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Bigger boat you get to have properly designed and easily used davits - some even have a proper deck crane.
This allows you to have a real dinghy/tender, not those little blow up play toys you have on smaller boats

I dislike those blow up boats as well. I prefer my portabote. No need for davits, and no need to tow the thing around. Moves fast with a small engine. Great to row, and can even be turned into a sailing dinghy. Perfect .

[sailorboy1]

Real cruising boats can handle a real dinghy that will hold people plus supplies. I doubt that the OP of this thread has any interest in small boats and ways to "get by".

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by WrongColorPaint

There seems to be a sweet-spot between the 47ft and 54ft range of boats.

Probably the ONLY thing that we would consider in terms of size is going a little bigger so that we have the space to modify stairs to make it easier for dogs and grandparents to get in/out of the cabin.

Thanks.

You may have a solution as on the pics of this 50-ft boat (# 1 is already sailing). 2 steps down from her cockpit to deck saloon, another step down to the cabins level.

[Mickeyrouse]

Don’t look for a hard and fast rule here. Everyone has their own threshold.
Here are some of my limits: when a boat gets too big to handle by the crew that most often sails her. When your time maintaining-repairing outpaces the time you want to use it. When you never use it. When you can’t afford it. When family interest is waning.
All of these limits can be approached without meaning it’s time to swallow the anchor. They can just mean you’ve got too much boat.

[Group9]

We were tied up at Hurricane Hole marina in Nassau one year, and one night I watched a family of four bring in their 110 foot yacht and tie it up to the outside pier. The kids, a boy and girl, were around 14 and 16 and handled all the lines, and although I walked out to help, they didn't need it.

It was about the most professional looking operation I ever saw. No professional crew could have done any better.

So too big, is relative, I guess.

[MicHughV]

this is one of those topics with no clear answer....a better distinction between boats is to compare displacements...
is a 40' Beneteau the same as a 40' Hans Christian....hell no, it ain't.......
Families have sailed all over the place in 20 some footers....as well as 100 footers...
it's time to kick some tires, climb on a few boats...there is no answer here....

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Steamer

You may have a solution as on the pics of this 50-ft boat (# 1 is already sailing). 2 steps down from her cockpit to deck saloon, another step down to the cabins level.

That is a pretty cool boat. If I was in that price bracket, I'd take a serious look at it. The gimballed salon is pretty intriguing.

[grussgott]

Originally Posted by robazurus

Amel for me, especially talking kids and dogs.
Please watch this video from YTube and see the choice made clear for this family

Bumping this thread - not having much experience, question about maintenance costs for cruising ... this guy is doing the ARC and probably multiple of them and his Amel 50 new is ~US$1M ... I've seen people say plan for 10%/year in maintenance ... given this guy does much of own routine maintenance is the estimate still really about US$100,000/yr just for maintenance? That seems high for a new boat, but you guys tell me! Thanks!

[Hesti]

Doing stuff yourself can be calculated against the annual maintenance. How much depends on the skill level - for most "handy" skippers, I'd guess 15 - 20 USD / hr might be in the ballpark.

On a new boat, once properly comissioned, the maintenance is lower for a few years. So, you put the money away for bad times. Depending on how much you use your boat, you may want new sails after 10 - 20 years. If you use them a lot and want performance, it may even be shorter than 10 years. A stitch in time saves nine, so, even before replacement, there will be some small repairs. If you live on the boat, you may want new upholstery every 10 years or so. The engine may need replacement after say 20 ... 30 years, the standing rigging after 20 years or if used a lot even earlier. Electronics - become more and more unreliable, displays seeing much sun start to fade - say 20 years until you want to replace. And so, it goes on. A 50 footer will probably have a genset, several pumps for hot and cold pressurized water, battery banks, perhaps air conditioning, ... ... ... Most of this will need attention eventually, as will the gelcoat, the antifouling, the propeller shaft bearings, ... Some maintenance and eventually replacement. The time after commissioning before the first wear and tear - that is the low maintenance phase, but it won't last.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by grussgott

Bumping this thread - not having much experience, question about maintenance costs for cruising ... this guy is doing the ARC and probably multiple of them and his Amel 50 new is ~US$1M ... I've seen people say plan for 10%/year in maintenance ... given this guy does much of own routine maintenance is the estimate still really about US$100,000/yr just for maintenance? That seems high for a new boat, but you guys tell me! Thanks!

Based on our experience that is way high. We commissioned a new Hyas 49' in 2006 and did the ARC etc to Europe. We sold the boat in 2012. I did all routine maintenance myself, but had yards handle bottom paint. We tracked all our expenses in Quicken. Here is a summary:

Crew airfares: $2,010
Commissioning (Sails, electronics package, drogue, stern arch, TV/DVD, anchors, Rigging, Watermaker, Domestic items (plates/sheets etc). $58,985
Fuel: $14,794
Euro Conversion (transformer etc. passeralle) $2,170
Insurance: $36,293
Misc (Charts, bikes, fenders, hurricane straps, $3,761
Maintenance (includes bottom paint/haulouts replacement mainsail/genoa): $25,318
Marinas: $54,268
Other misc $39,507.

If you exclude all the commissioning items totalling $58,985 this adds up to $178,121

At the time MoonStruck was sold she was fully up to date on maintenance etc. so the above total is representative of the operating expenses over 6 years of a similar boat. Annually this works out to be $29,687. This amount would have to be increased by an inflation factor.....

I hope this is helpful.

~Alan

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by WrongColorPaint

where is the threshold or at what point does the amount of effort and time it takes to operate and maintain a boat start to become unreasonable as the length of the boat gets larger?
.

The threshold is purely financial

[grussgott]

Originally Posted by AlanT

Based on our experience that is way high.... so the above total is representative of the operating expenses over 6 years of a similar boat. Annually this works out to be $29,687.

Thanks Alan, perfect! That's about exactly what I'd expect and seem much more reasonable.