Asking Asymmetric

[Albee rose]

Hi all:

Am new to sailing, wanted to buy a used asymmetrical spinnaker (my understanding, happy to be corrected if in error, is you get a roughly 80-150 degree working window with asyms, increasing slightly if used in tandem with spinnaker pole for closer to ddw).

So was wondering: How does one size an asym for their boat? Any considerations and cautions thatta newbie who don't even know what he don't know should learn up on?

Been hemorrhaging money onna refit inna boatyard here in SF Bay (bought it in Stockton of all places; asked broker if boat was in the Witness Protection Program; not slagging on Stockton, just not the exact place I'da spected to find a Skookum sailin fishboat). So apart from alla spendy must n oughtta haves in the sailing realm, boat's gotta answer for commercial fishing, too, (and that's had alla its attendant vexations and cost overruns), so:

Think I'ma have to be content with just one specialty downwind sail for light airs for now to go with main, mizz, 110 Yank and staysail (purty heavy dacron; 10.2 oz. for main n mizz; 9.8 for headsails); oh, n gotta storm trysail, too.

Any thoughts or gentle (or not) corrections on my understanding of what follows is greatly appreciated. Tx. in advance.

My specific question: Mainmast measurements: I = 50 feet, J = 18 feet. Is luff length of asymm the determining factor? I.e. You want it maximized on your masthead rig so's it uses all available area but leaves a body room to see where you're going and keep sail outta water and room for sock at top? Not just sure how to proceed, so any that wants to put an oar in the water, much appreciated.

And is there a substantive diff betwixt an asym and a gennaker? Or is it marketing mostly?

And weight/density? Was reckoning 1.5 ounce cuz boat's a tank -- 40 gross tons, but happy to be enlightened otherwise if lighter might answer.

Seen an asym online I kinda warmed to with a luff of 51'6", leech of 46', and a foot of 26''; gotta ATN sock, no sheets, 1.5 oz. for 1.3K. That sound about right? Or is it high or low? No idea, really, tho comparative to other listings seems sorta economical for what it is.

Sorry so clipped, tried not to over-indulge my inner-logorrheaic. As Mark Twain once said upon closing a letter, I'da made it shorter but I run outta time.

Tx.

David

[barnakiel]

Walk into your loft and let them know the type of your boat, the angles you want the sail for and the wind force.

Your sailmaker will do all calcs and come back to you with a suggestion for the best sail.

b.

[Albee rose]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Walk into your loft and let them know the type of your boat, the angles you want the sail for and the wind force.

Your sailmaker will do all calcs and come back to you with a suggestion for the best sail.

b.

barnakiel:

Tx. but should reiterate not buying new, so was thinking pumping a sail loft for info when I ain't got any intention of buying a sail from em would leave me feelin like I need to take a shower. (But, on the other hand, hadn't occurred to me till your suggestion that I could simply ask the folks who sold me my new sails, and perhaps as a courtesy for having spent a lil north of five digits with them, they'd lay a little asym education on me. Will pursue that avenue. Tx.)

No, I thought I'd breeze in here and be an ignorant pain-in-the-ass to alla you fine people instead. Hope that's OK. (Me n Blanche DuBois got a lil in common sometimes.)

Mostly looking at used asyms on the notorious intertubes.

Re: buying new: been there, done that with alla my other sails (allowing as how sails and standing rigging from Donna Summer disco-era vintage was prolly more known for its flagging-from-flogging enthusiasm than its can-do ability). New sails is sure purty. Will say that. Spensive, too, as everyone here knows. And by God, they even work! (Which everyone here but prolly me also already knows.) Even used em onna test-sail once out in SF bay in betwixt boatwork. Allus encouraging when things cooperate after putting lotsa dough into a (for me, anyways) abstract principle. Woo-hoo!

However. As re: asym, it's kind'va two-parter: one, hoping the hive mind can help bring me up to speed on the particulars of what I need far's asym sail selection particulars/principles for my sitch so's I can learn myself into (if not transcendent at least cognizant) unnerstanding in the futuretimes, and second, what fun is an enigma inna foreign land when all things is still possible till discovering that most of em just ain't if a body can't muddle n claw his way up the slickery learning curve and reinvent the wheel a coupla times before finally getting it right?

Almost don't never get a big new thing zackly right the first time. Buy high, sell, low. Just how I operate, apparently. Hoping some of you knowed a maxim or guiding principle bout asyms that might could answer. No worries if not. Appreciate the minds n the knowledge n the unselfish sharing that goes down here.

[barnakiel]

OK. I see. My quick reading skills at times take me to the outskirts of common sense.

Here are my 2 c on light fore sails:

- all light fore sails can be seen as one, with symm spinn being just an extreme species of the kite kingdom,

- cloth weight will depend on how much strain you expect, and this strain is related to wind angle and wind speed (narrower angle = more strain),

- luff length will be limiting in achieving the narrower angles (apparent wind fore of the beam), as will sail camber/depth be,

- apparent wind travels fore quickly on light boats, less so on heavy boats,

So, from the above, I would imagine that a 1.5 oz nylon kite with luff shorter than your sqrt (I^2+J^2) (I believe 53.14 for your boat) can be used close reaching to running in something like 10 kts upwind and 20 kts ddw true wind.

Err on the shorter side of the luff. And the further fore you want to push your app wind, the flatter the sail has to be.

Extra tip, think ahead of how you want to hoist and douse. A fine furling system or a sock make all the difference, esp. with biggish sails and in puffy moments.

b.

[AKA-None]

A number of sailmakers sell used sails, they can provide you with recommendations.


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[Albee rose]

Barnakiel:

Wanted to say tx. for sharing info. Was helpful. Apologize for getting back so late -- crush of boatwork and lack a wifi conspired against.

Went with the craigslist asymmetrical. Received it coupla days ago, looks great. Crinkly, looks new, gotta ATN sock. Now just gotta figure how to get it rigged proper and fly it.

Tx. again.

d

[barnakiel]

Next time out, snap a picture and show us your new toy!

Cheers,
b.