Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-11-2020, 09:50   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 1
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider0804 View Post
I am curious about swing keels like the southerly line.

In an ocean scenario a large worry of mine would be getting knocked down and having the keel slam back into the trunk.

I have searched for information on this but the only thing I have found is heresy and nothing that resembles any real experience.

Out of curiosity I looked at the setup for a southerly swing keel to look for a down lock pin but I did not see such a thing, or if there was one installed, how it would be put in and out with the trunk being a solid glass case except for the few holes for inspections or parts to go through.

Any swing keel owners out there have experience with ocean transits or rough conditions, maybe experienced a knockdown?

Had a knock down in the Mediterranean in a southerly 115 and no probs, straight back up. could see the tumble home sliding down the wave. Was quite impressive.

Few years ago had a very bad lock down storm in the STCZ between Cook islands and Tonga and again no probs. No knock downs.

Beauty of swing keel (not pin locked) is a first warning of shallow water.
Useful when motoring slowly in poor viz waters off Bocas del Toro.
If locked and contact the bottom will cause severe damage in casing area of pin arrangement. Not recommended.
tacl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 09:57   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catalina 22, Ovni 39
Posts: 21
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

We have an Alubat Ovni 39. she has been across the ocean a couple times but we have not been aboard her then. There is a line to the head of the centerboard/keel that holds the keel down when the line is tight and stopped or cleated off. Boat is stable with her internal ballast, but without some board below the hull, she will move sideways at good speed unless sailing downwind. Also have sailed a Catalina 22, whose ballast is in a swing keel that hangs mostly outside the hull. There is a bolt to lock it down, but most get bent or broken if the boat runs aground with it locked. If the boat turtles, the keel will retract up from gravity, but a knockdown does not bring the keel up. I prefer the line method in the Alubat to hold the keel/board down.
tombeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 09:58   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 1,915
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clakiep View Post
Heavy swing keels that contribute a lot to the righting moment should be locked in the down position to avoid swinging in when overturned. But they should also give way when hitting an obstacle, and not free fall back in the down position when the obstacle is surpassed. Friction lock ? ...hard to gauge. Mechanical fuse plus schockabsorber ? I have seen cases where the freedownfalling after an obstacle damaged the lifting mechanism and could have damaged much more, including the hull itself.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties
Perhaps a shear pin? I know that some power boats had shear pins so that when the ran into shallow waters they wouldn't damage the running gear. Since in theory hitting an obstacle is not a common issue, would a shear pin make more sense? In theory it would offer a less complicated system that is more easily replaced than a friction lock.
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 11:32   #19
Registered User
 
goodoldwoody's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Mummery 34
Posts: 77
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

With boats and oceans use the KISS priniple!
Just donít.
goodoldwoody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 11:47   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Delray Beach Fl
Boat: kelt 8.5
Posts: 56
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

I have a Kelt 8.5 with a swing keel. It stay up with in the trunk when not in use and drop and rises on a power winch. Once down the keel rides on a ridge like T with the top of the T holding the keel in place. I have no problems in heavy weather as the keel sits on a steel elliptical base that provide weight and stability. This model boat sails the north sea and is very stable keel up or keel down. The beauty is I am in S Florida, the swinging keel prevents me from running hard aground. It bounces, I stop and turn around.
realem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 12:21   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: United States
Boat: Currently looking for my next boat.
Posts: 40
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodoldwoody View Post
With boats and oceans use the KISS priniple!
Just donít.
To be fair, a triangle shaped weight and a single pin is about the simplest mechanism you can make and that is not what I am at all worried about.
Spider0804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 12:56   #22
Registered User
 
northwestsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TromsÝ, Norway
Boat: Meta Arctic Voyager 47
Posts: 374
Images: 13
Send a message via AIM to northwestsailor Send a message via Skype™ to northwestsailor
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

I have a Meta Dalu 47 with an unballasted swing keel. All the ballast is within the hull itself not in the keel. Although the keel is steel in aluminum boat so it does add a bit of ballast. Also at 9 feet below waterline it makes a huge difference sailing upwind.

Anytime we have the wind aft of abeam we start raising the keel until it is just dragging DDW. We have been in very big seas and winds off the coast of Venezuela and Colombia. The boat never approached a broach probably mainly due the keel just dragging for longitudinal stability but not enough to trip over when surfing down the waves.

Having a flat bottom for beaching and shoals is a great advantage for worldwide sailing.
northwestsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 13:04   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

One of the purported benefits of shallow draft keel/centerboard boats is there is little hanging out below the waterline to trip the boat in a survival sea condition. Boats don't get rolled by the wind but by the waves. With a deep keel, it will stick in the wave and facilitate rolling the boat. That's primarily theory but there are a bunch of AluBat style center boarders out there that have successfully sailed in really nasty weather and climates. They are virtually flat bottomed with nothing hanging down with the boards up.

I know that I'd never deploy the centerboard in my Pearson 35 unless I really need to sail as close to the wind as possible like clawing off a lee shore. If I had a swing keel boat would raise the keel in nasty conditions and accept the leeway if it didn't put me in danger of grounding.

With a swing keel bolt would want a way to lock it down in normal use. A wind caused knock down could allow the keel to swing up and that several thousand pounds could do really major damage when it ran into something immovable on the boat.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 13:05   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Ireland
Boat: Atkins,Island Princess. 37ft
Posts: 20
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

I have never sailed on a Southerly, I believe they are strongly built with a strong grounding plate of cast iron which incorporates the swing keel.
I have sailed around the world in my aluminium vessel Northabout designed by the late French naval architect Gilbert Caroff. This vessel has a lifting keel weighing a quarter tonne. It might be more properly be described as a centreboard, It has a pivot at the forward end and stays down by its own weight, and is lifted by a simple tackle. Despite being in very heavy seas and breaking waves in 5 Atlantic crossings, we never came near a knockdown, partly helped by the hull being beamy and form stable.
Pelagic, on the other hand, which I sailed on in the Drake Passage, has a completely different keel arrangement. The keel is more like a daggerboard, and weighs a massive 12 tons. It is pinned down securely, and can be raised by a power winch operating a multi-part tackle. I'm sure Skip Novak can give further details
Maclir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 13:16   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Currently Monastir, Tunisia
Boat: Celestial 48, Cutter.
Posts: 28
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

Are there no Ovni owners in the forum?
svchinamoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 13:26   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: United States
Boat: Currently looking for my next boat.
Posts: 40
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

I personally have an interest in a Tanzer 10.5 but am prejudiced against swing keels with pre concieved notions of doom.

It is a fairly rare boat so I made the thread to see other people's experience with what they have.

Pretty positive so far, how often do people get maintenance done on the pin and moving mechanisms?
Spider0804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 14:29   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New England. USA.
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 1,479
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

Swing keels are different from centerboards as has been pointed out. I was in a race with fairly rough seas when a competitor sank. No injuries.
The boat was an S2 7.9 with a ballasted dagger board. Like a swing keel but up and down. Not a centerboard.
About 1/3 the ballast was in the board.
The (very aggressive) owner raised the weighted dagger board while going down wind in gusts to 30. The boat rolled on her side and sank in a bout 50 feet of water.
Two weeks later the boat was back racing, with a big sign on the side ďone up on the TitanicĒ
The lesson for me is donít raise a ballast keel in rough weather.

I have a centerboard boat. The bronze board is about 5% or less of the ballast. I rarely raise the board for downwind if itís already down. But rarely put it down if Iím not on a reach to a beat.
dfelsent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 15:04   #28
Registered User
 
FlightPlan's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Boat: Little Harbor 58
Posts: 173
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

I have a swing keel, unballasted, and it fits into a trunk that is very narrow fore and aft and port to starboard. When the board is down, the trunk is full of water. All my ballast is in the bottom of the hull. If I got rolled over the board would try to fall into the trunk, but would do so only as fast as the board could displace the water. I don't think it would slam into the trunk and break anything.


On another note, I don't let the board down completely unless it is in a following sea inside of 20 degrees downwind. It keeps the rocking moment in check with the mast rocking back and forth.



In big seas, I find it better to run off 25 to 30 degrees with the board 75% down and a reefed main and staysail. If I heave to, I'll let the board down to the max.


Just my experience and opinion, all boats have individual characteristics.
FlightPlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 15:51   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Boat: NeptunusMV 70
Posts: 5
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

We had a 60'+ North Wind, swing keel 5 !/2' to 8' draft. Sailed across Atlantic twice. It great, pointed into wind with keel down . In Bahamas down was very handy. yes it made noise on long sails. Yes we got knock down once by rouge wave. But for 5 years we enjoyed the boat. When you haul out try to get the boat high enough that you can clean barnacle's from trunk and all of keel, be sure to check pin on keel. yes it has its issues but very handy on long sails
hessee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 15:59   #30
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Washington State
Boat: Yankee Dolphin 24'
Posts: 242
Re: Anyone have ocean/offshore experience with swing keels?

A point of terminology: if it is unballasted (or only enough weight to drop down), then it is a centerboard. A "swing keel" means that the majority of the ballast moves.



I have sailed multiple (small) swing keel boats, as well as multiple keel/centerboard boats. None of the centerboards had any way to lock in the down position. Some of the swing keels had a method of locking in the down position, some didn't.
tenchiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, keel, offshore

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boats over 30 feet with Swing Keels, Lift Keels, or Centerboards lays300 Monohull Sailboats 27 10-08-2023 20:12
Dagger boards, mini-keels or swing keels dstraton Multihull Sailboats 15 21-07-2020 06:53
Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels bdurham Monohull Sailboats 149 26-07-2011 17:06
Swing boards or keels fastcat435 Multihull Sailboats 25 07-08-2008 07:41

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.