Another first boat question. Refreshments and hors d'oeuvres inside

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by TwoLegged

Crazy, at 48 you're still plenty young enough for a dinghy of you want to do it!

The reason I suggested it was that you wrote at the top that you wanted to continue your sailing education ... and a dinghy is by far the fastest way to climb that learning curve. Much less time and energy required to maintain it, so you get much more time to learn quickly. If your future is close, take the fast lane!

I can see that you really do want to get the keelboat experience now. So why not get a fast dinghy as well?

With a bit of hunting, $500 will get you a tired old Laser which won't win any races. Or for less money, a Force5, which is a nicer boat to sail. But you can chuck it on a car roof, launch quickly in any water anywhere, at short notice, and get the intensive sailing tuition which you won't get from a keelboat on inland waterways.

But whatever you decide -- good luck! [emoji2]

You're right, I did find one locally in reasonable shape. A little more than $500 but with a small trailer.

I was looking for answers, not more questions! [emoji2]

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

A boat for someone who dances to a different drummer.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2265499

For me, I would much rather own and sail this boat rather than the common Catalina 25/27 etc.

And I would enjoy learning and focusing on sailing this boat with its simple systems. I think it would be fun, and sailing into any harbor would be fun too, as I think despite its smaller size it would catch the eye of sailors.

At the listed price, I would buy, enjoy for two years, and not worry too much about resale. In fact, I would probabaly donate it to local Sea Scouts or such. Or let your sons take it for their first boat.

And as for "a different drummer" I can recommend this album "Planet Drum" by Mickey Hart. It is inspiring and extraordinary.

Here is one track:

https://youtu.be/TZbvkYJJ-lw

I saw that boat when you posted it in your other thread.

Definitely a niche boat - kind of between my current thinking of a cheap dinghy and a full-on keel boat.

It reminded me of this:

[Crazy Talk]

And I was digging the Nick Hart! I don't usually follow artists but i get into world instruments and listen to it to relax. It's edgier cousin is trance which is more electronic and my go to when I'm moving around.

Good stuff!

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Why not just get the boat which a) you really like aesthetically, b) sails well and c) priced right for your budget? It could be a cookie cutter Catalina or a Hunter or it could be some funky under the radar model. A boat is not an investment to be thought of in terms of some "resale" down the road just as you don't buy your good shoes with the resale value in mind. Use it, learn on it, enjoy it. If your recoup some of the costs on resale - great, you will then be way ahead of the game. If not - think of it as an equivalent of club membership/charter fees. And btw cheaper in the long run and/or per sail if you end up sailing her a lot, as you should be.

Great thoughts, Island Time, thank you.

My thoughts on the "resale" revolve more around what someone above said - It's hard to sell a boat. A few thousand plus or minus wont be a big deal but I don't want it to be a year or two process. That's where the Catalina name works. Could I rebrand the Pearson? [emoji2]

[cpt_757]

Would you like to go dinghy and your cruising boat first? So you can skip selling other boat after 2 years before buying your cruising boat.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Just my 2 cents which is contrary to everyone. Go buy big now. It is a financial thing. The little boat will depreciate and if you put goodies on it you not even get that back. and then getting rid of it you may have to just give it away as mentioned above. How much of a hit are you willing to take. If you have the money no issue...

Chuck, I appreciate the advice and it's actually a course I considered specifically for financial reasons as you mentioned.

At this point, my Jeanneau 40 is a few years away and I'm trying to prepare for it. At the $10k spot I'm hoping to buy a boat that will serve me well and I can get back some or most of it in 2 years. I don't expect to add much in the way of amenities knowing I'm reselling. And if I gave it away, it would hurt. But I'd get by.

What I'm more concerned about is buying my Jeanneau 40 now then deciding I really wanted the Hanse. Now a resale and buy costs me $50k? $75k?

At this point I don't know what I don't know. I hope I can approach some of your sailing successes however!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Just my 2 cents which is contrary to everyone. Go buy big now. It is a financial thing. The little boat will depreciate and if you put goodies on it you not even get that back. and then getting rid of it you may have to just give it away as mentioned above. How much of a hit are you willing to take. If you have the money no issue.

We had a friend that got a 30s something Hunter almost new and lived and enjoyed it and sailed it and learned a lot. Did a ton of upgrades and kept the boat in pristine condition. When it came time to get the big boat could not even give it away. Delayed their departure by 1-1 1/2 years trying to get rid of the boat. finally traded it in on a new boat and took a beating .

On the other hand we never sailed until Dec 2000 - our first time on a boat. In 2003 bought a new Jeanneau DS40 and yea it was a learning experience but I guess we did pretty well as we got probably 30-35knm on her - a 2 handed atlantic crossing and this summer sailed all the way around the Black Sea.

from our perspective get what you want now and learn it -- we did and we are I would guess reasonably successfully at it

I have no problem with this approach either..... especially if the OP is sure he wants long term sailing. But the 30 footer might disclose that sailing's not for him.
I find you end up living with the boat you get. Interior layouts vary, but for every advantage one has, the other layout has one too. You have a fixed volume... and each change is like squeezing a balloon, it pops up somewhere else.
The type of boat, can make a difference though. As Don Casey said in an article recently: (paraphrasing due to length) "Although spade rudders have advantages, they are a net liability offshore, too small a shaft can bend, too large takes the bottom of the boat out with it....however the risks should be small with a well built newer boat... incidents every year of a crew rescued and boat being abandoned at sea due to rudder failure..."
So you really need to decide what camp you are in first. Not sure a dingy or 30 footer will help a lot with that decision. :>) Either is fine, just "what's right for you."

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Crazy Talk

Great thoughts, Island Time, thank you.

My thoughts on the "resale" revolve more around what someone above said - It's hard to sell a boat. A few thousand plus or minus wont be a big deal but I don't want it to be a year or two process. That's where the Catalina name works. Could I rebrand the Pearson? [emoji2]

I don't know where you are but in our neck of the woods, So. New England, Pearson is a venerable name and is respected way more than Catalinas or Hunters.

Another brand to consider is O'day. They made quite a few models and configurations. Their most prolific was 25 which they made about 3,000 of. 90% of which had the c/b keel, great for skinny water gunkholing, trailering, etc. Their 28-30 footers quality wise are on par with Catalinas and definitely better sailors than same age Hunters of similar size. They're dime a dozen in today's market so if you get one in decent shape for $3-5K you can definitely unload it 2-3 years later in that price range. Even if you get only $1-2K for it the loss is exactly the annual membership fee for that size at most sailing clubs.

And unlike investing tens/hundreds of thousands $$ into 20+ year old boat it really should not be a deal breaker on a $3-5K 30 year old boat that it has some nonstructural flaws here and there. Unless you're planning to take it offshore or RTW most such flaws are part of the deal and these boats, with blemishes and all, will usually outlive most of their owners if not scrapped in the meantime. My motto has been and still is - it's better to sail a cheap boat with blemishes than to sit on land waiting for that perfect boat to materialize at a budget which won't break one's back.

[leftbrainstuff]

Fot turnkey you'll want to buy a boat from a fastidious owner. Tou can either pay top dollar, wait for a deal or buy very basic.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Crazy Talk

Chuck, I appreciate the advice and it's actually a course I considered specifically for financial reasons as you mentioned.

At this point, my Jeanneau 40 is a few years away and I'm trying to prepare for it. At the $10k spot I'm hoping to buy a boat that will serve me well and I can get back some or most of it in 2 years. I don't expect to add much in the way of amenities knowing I'm reselling. And if I gave it away, it would hurt. But I'd get by.

What I'm more concerned about is buying my Jeanneau 40 now then deciding I really wanted the Hanse. Now a resale and buy costs me $50k? $75k?

At this point I don't know what I don't know. I hope I can approach some of your sailing successes however!

Actually that's another personal experience which may qualify as advice - never, ever, buy a boat with "future destinations in mind". Always buy the one which will serve your goals/purposes TODAY. Not 2-3-5 years down the road but today. It will be infinitely cheaper to giveaway that $10K boat in 2-3 years than to take a loss on a more expensive boat which you hardly used as intended in as much of time.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Fot turnkey you'll want to buy a boat from a fastidious owner. Tou can either pay top dollar, wait for a deal or buy very basic.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The first boat I actually looked at, Ericson 29, had such an owner. The boat was about 30 years old at the time and the seller was the only owner I believe. He was asking only $7,500 (ended up selling for about $5K) and she was in great shape. He was selling due to advanced age (84) and the wife's refusal to set foot on it after he got to be 80. It's biggest drawback which prevented me from buying it was of course the Atomic 4 which was original to it. Looking back the boat was probably in the best of shape compared to all the other similarly aged boats I looked at. If it weren't for that A4...

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by cpt_757

Would you like to go dinghy and your cruising boat first? So you can skip selling other boat after 2 years before buying your cruising boat.

I'd like all three. But I'm trying to be adult about this and walk before I run. [emoji1]

I noticed you're in Marina Del Rey. Living in the Northeast it's about this time every year I start thinking about how nice it would be to live in a warm climate.

[Mithril Bham]

Catalina's are good boats.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have no problem with this approach either..... especially if the OP is sure he wants long term sailing. But the 30 footer might disclose that sailing's not for him.
I find you end up living with the boat you get. Interior layouts vary, but for every advantage one has, the other layout has one too. You have a fixed volume... and each change is like squeezing a balloon, it pops up somewhere else.
The type of boat, can make a difference though....

My sea-worthiness is a consideration as well. I've never been out of site of land on a boat. I don't think it will be an issue. But who knows.

Another part of my evil plan is to make the second boat as wife-friendly as possible. She'll miss some of the non-necessities of living before I will so this will also be a test of what she needs to keep her around.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Fot turnkey you'll want to buy a boat from a fastidious owner. Tou can either pay top dollar, wait for a deal or buy very basic.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Agree completely. I get a kick out of pictures of boats where the inside is filled with stuff thrown all over the place. It could be a great boat but I'll never go look at it.