Another first boat question. Refreshments and hors d'oeuvres inside

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Good plan. I would second the Cat 30. Key to your plan is resale. Boats are not easy to sell. Anything you put into the boat you buy will not come back to you in most cases. Buy something that is useable when you buy it and be prepared to lose the broker's commission and any regular maintenance costs at least when you sell.

Cheech, thanks for the input.

You're right, the resale is the key. I do expect to put money into it for some items. That money is what I will consider the two year rental fee.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I'd have to agree, Cat 27 or 30 will likely have the best resale value.

Don, thanks for the reply.

That resale keeps creeping up.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by DDabs

wait where are the refreshments

You just missed them. Brian, Stu, Twolegged and Cheech can really put them away.

[Crazy Talk]

Originally Posted by thomm225

He said he didn't want a Catalina.

Get a boat with some character. Here's a good list to choose from:

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

Thomm, I appreciate the input.

I've been on that site and I love boats (or anything) with character!

I can see why the Catalina has come up here - the resale.

Boat number two will be my castle. Then my kids will be selling it and it won't matter.

[TwoLegged]

Originally Posted by Crazy Talk

Twolegged, I appreciate the response.

The right answer doesn't need to be fashionable.

If I were 28 I probably already would have done that. At 48 my future is a little closer and my needs are different than just getting out on a sailboat.

However, I do hope that my boys are interested enough to some dinghy sailing themselves.

Crazy, at 48 you're still plenty young enough for a dinghy of you want to do it!

The reason I suggested it was that you wrote at the top that you wanted to continue your sailing education ... and a dinghy is by far the fastest way to climb that learning curve. Much less time and energy required to maintain it, so you get much more time to learn quickly. If your future is close, take the fast lane!

I can see that you really do want to get the keelboat experience now. So why not get a fast dinghy as well?

With a bit of hunting, $500 will get you a tired old Laser which won't win any races. Or for less money, a Force5, which is a nicer boat to sail. But you can chuck it on a car roof, launch quickly in any water anywhere, at short notice, and get the intensive sailing tuition which you won't get from a keelboat on inland waterways.

But whatever you decide -- good luck!

[P26OD228]

Originally Posted by TwoLegged

I know that this is an unfashionable answer, but I suggest starting with a reasonably fast racing dinghy, and sailing the hell out of it. Race it, play with, take it out in all weathers.

The advantage of a dinghy is that it provides much more direct and immediate feedback, and is less forgiving of errors. You can find its limits much more easily than with a keelboat, and you can learn much more, much faster than in a more sedate boat.

You don't need a fancy dinghy. Buy an old one, with tired sails and a battered hull, and use it lots.

Is racing "unfashionable"? Weird! I learned to sail by crewing races on 30 & 40-foot cruisers in sailing club weekend and beer can races.

You learn to react quickly. It was like a crash corse in sailing for me.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Crazy Talk

I know you've seen this before. And I've read most of them. But this is MY boat.

Before we get to the boat, here is the longer term plan.

This will be my first boat and I am a new sailor. What I want out of this boat is a platform to learn. Ive taken some classes and sailed some (reas littlw) but I want to continue my sailing education, primarily singlehandedly, but also to teach my boys if they are interested. I'll spend some time out in rougher weather to get a feel for it and work on my weathered complexion. I want to find out what I like and don't like on a boat.

I also want to learn how to maintain the boat and overcome issues if they arise. Right now I'm reading Nigel Calder's book on diesel engines and expect to be able to tear into it to do what needs to doing to keep it running. I want to understand the electrical aspects as well and follow that up with structural, plumbing etc. I do alot of that stuff now at my home so it's an extension of what I already do.

I say all that, but I want my first boat to be pretty turnkey. Climb aboard and sail. The maintenance and whatnot is as needed, I'm not looking for a project. The systems are there for me to see, understand, maintain, and correct if needed.

I've read enough here to know that I definitely want to buy the refurbed boat rather than the cheapie that needs it.

I expect to own this boat for 2 years then sell for my cruising boat.

So, for the first boat my goals are, learn everything I can about sailing, spend days on it at away from land to determine MY seaworthiness, not put alot of money in, and in 2 years sell for about the same price.

The boat will stay in the water in the Philadelphia area. I expect to cruise up to NY, maybe Boston and down to the Chesapeake. I'm thinking 27-30ish feet, shallower draft for the Chesapeake. If I can keep it under $10k that would be great but not a necessity. Most of what I see there is early to mid 80's.

Just in looking online I've liked the Pearson, the S2, the Cal and a few others. I know this might sound weird but I've been avoiding Catalina and Hunter for no other reason than I like to dance to the beat of a different drum. But maybe in this case the name will help in resale.

So the goals are buy reasonably, learn alot about sailing and maintenance, use like it's a big boat, sell at about the same as buy. Knowing what you now know, where would you start?

A boat for someone who dances to a different drummer.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2265499

For me, I would much rather own and sail this boat rather than the common Catalina 25/27 etc.

And I would enjoy learning and focusing on sailing this boat with its simple systems. I think it would be fun, and sailing into any harbor would be fun too, as I think despite its smaller size it would catch the eye of sailors.

At the listed price, I would buy, enjoy for two years, and not worry too much about resale. In fact, I would probabaly donate it to local Sea Scouts or such. Or let your sons take it for their first boat.

And as for "a different drummer" I can recommend this album "Planet Drum" by Mickey Hart. It is inspiring and extraordinary.

Here is one track:

https://youtu.be/TZbvkYJJ-lw

[Yellowtulip]

The big advantage of sailing a dinghy is that you HAVE to be aware of the wind direction and strength at all times, or you don't make any progress. There's no option to start the engine "just to get me out of trouble". A few weekends sailing a dinghy will be fun, and shorten your learning time considerably. Good sailing is good sailing whether you're racing or cruising.

[Island Time O25]

Why not just get the boat which a) you really like aesthetically, b) sails well and c) priced right for your budget? It could be a cookie cutter Catalina or a Hunter or it could be some funky under the radar model. A boat is not an investment to be thought of in terms of some "resale" down the road just as you don't buy your good shoes with the resale value in mind. Use it, learn on it, enjoy it. If your recoup some of the costs on resale - great, you will then be way ahead of the game. If not - think of it as an equivalent of club membership/charter fees. And btw cheaper in the long run and/or per sail if you end up sailing her a lot, as you should be.

[TwoLegged]

Originally Posted by P26OD228

Is racing "unfashionable"? Weird! I learned to sail by crewing races on 30 & 40-foot cruisers in sailing club weekend and beer can races.

You learn to react quickly. It was like a crash corse in sailing for me.

No, I didn't mean that racing was unfashionable. I meant that learning and training in dinghies seems to be unfashionable.

A lot of sailors these days seem to learn on keelboats. I don't think that they are anywhere near as good for basic training -- slower to react, and harder to reach the limits.

[chuckr]

Just my 2 cents which is contrary to everyone. Go buy big now. It is a financial thing. The little boat will depreciate and if you put goodies on it you not even get that back. and then getting rid of it you may have to just give it away as mentioned above. How much of a hit are you willing to take. If you have the money no issue.

We had a friend that got a 30s something Hunter almost new and lived and enjoyed it and sailed it and learned a lot. Did a ton of upgrades and kept the boat in pristine condition. When it came time to get the big boat could not even give it away. Delayed their departure by 1-1 1/2 years trying to get rid of the boat. finally traded it in on a new boat and took a beating .

On the other hand we never sailed until Dec 2000 - our first time on a boat. In 2003 bought a new Jeanneau DS40 and yea it was a learning experience but I guess we did pretty well as we got probably 30-35knm on her - a 2 handed atlantic crossing and this summer sailed all the way around the Black Sea.

from our perspective get what you want now and learn it -- we did and we are I would guess reasonably successfully at it

[Suijin]

I'm going to throw out another vote for the Catalina 30. They are well made, comfortable, sail well, are relatively handsome, and they have a huge owners group that you will learn a tremendous amount from. If one of your key goals is learning how to keep a boat in good repair and learn boat systems, you'll be far better served to choose a common boat where there is a lot of information. The more obscure a boat is, the more likely it is that every repair, modification, and refit issue becomes and exercise in creative invention. That's not bad in and of itself, it's just not where you want to be.

I have an acquaintance who has sailed the pants off his Catalina 30, from Maine to the FL keys. It's a great little boat.

In your size range I would really not worry about draft. 5' will get you into 80% of the places you want to go in the Chesapeake. Go into any shallower water and you'll get eaten by bugs anyway.

That said, pretty much any production boat would be a good choice for you, provided you choose wisely. Buy one that has just been intelligently refit and let the previous owner take the hit. It will be the most economical boat to own for two years, even if it's more expensive than other example of the model because that refit will hold it's value up for when you sell. In other words, find a boat that needs as little work as possible as you won't get $.50 on the dollar of anything you put into it when you go to sell.

[Tetepare]

The Catalina 30 is the Honda Accord of boats. Great at absolutely nothing. Pretty darned good at everything. I know- I've had one for 22 years and want to replace it with something larger and find that I have to go into the 42+ foot range to get what the C30 has and the other elements I want.

They are easy to sell. I've had my sold, pending the purchase of my next boat. I have people asking me to sell mine.

The wing keel draws 3' 10" so I can stand next to it and clean the hull.

That said, my eye is often drawn to the 60s Albergs and Pearsons. Basic, no frills boats. But solid and can be bought for a few grand. Add water heater and some plumbing and some second-hand electronics and you can have a C30-like boat for under five grand.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

The Catalina 30 is the Honda Accord of boats. Great at absolutely nothing. Pretty darned good at everything. I know- I've had one for 22 years and want to replace it with something larger and find that I have to go into the 42+ foot range to get what the C30 has and the other elements I want.

They are easy to sell. I've had my sold, pending the purchase of my next boat. I have people asking me to sell mine.

The wing keel draws 3' 10" so I can stand next to it and clean the hull.

That said, my eye is often drawn to the 60s Albergs and Pearsons. Basic, no frills boats. But solid and can be bought for a few grand. Add water heater and some plumbing and some second-hand electronics and you can have a C30-like boat for under five grand.

Boats of that vintage have about half the interior space of the Catalina 30. The Alberg 30, with her beautiful long overhangs, is positively tiny inside.

Relatedly, forgot to mention to the OP that if it's possible, buy a boat with as little exterior wood as possible. Another time consuming maintenance issue that you can avoid.

[Matt_Watkins27]

Check out the Watkins 27. I have one and I love it. Solid built boats. Not a ton of them around. Loyal following. Plenty of room below to weekend on it. Can take a beating in rough weather. Shoal draft so it's harder to run aground. I'll keep mine for another year or two to learn more on, and then upgrade to my long term boat.

Just my 2 cents.