Albin Vega 27 - Possible Renovation - Delamination Concern...

[TGK]

Hello,

My name is Joe and I am considering buying a nearly free ($500) Albin Vega 27 (#838, actually) as essentially a full restoration project. (~No need to point out the amount of work involved here, it is quite obvious. )

Some internal woodworking has water-damage, and all of it has a bit of mold, so I would likely replace 100% of it (for consistency) with modern, textured, birch marine plywood. As a woodworker, this aspect of the project does not frighten me, nor most other building-related things like dealing with epoxy resin, or some metal work affixing the base of the mast to a new, hinged plate, etc..

However, in my somewhat hasty exploration of the boat the other day, I quickly arrived at several new questions that I am now hoping some of you can help me address! (~Especially any Vega (or former Vega) owners out there!)

Question/Concern #1:

Across the entire boat, the only fiberglass delamination I discovered was along the sides above the back-most portion of the keel (-circled in red). Please note that these 'cracks' appear to be above the non-ballast(?) portion of the keel. The front-half of the keel, where ballast is certainly present, there is no such delamination, making me believe that the iron/lead is still perhaps moisture free.(?)

So, for those that know, given the Albin Vega's design, how detrimental is the delamination at this back-keel location? Is this common and due to strain? Is it structurally vital? What is the keel made of at this back half?


-That's all for now!
-Thank you kindly for any input!

-Joe

[thomm225]

How are the sails?

The engine?

My free $2,000 boat (a 1974 Bristol 27) I bought in 2011 needed none of what yours does, but just for a new outboard (after the diesel failed a month after purchase) and new main, I had $5100 invested in it.

The jib that came with the boat was almost new. It also came with 2 GPS Units, Depth, VHF Radio, autopilot, anchors, rode, chain, and a dodger.

Now I have about $15,000 or more in this boat, and I'll be lucky to get $7,000 for it with it's new sails from last year, solar, autopilot, Golf Cart Batteries, Inverter, dodger, new gen anchors, spare anchors, LED Cabin Lamps, new interior shades, etc, etc

[Fore and Aft]

TGK that's a fairly easy fix. Just cut the old glass away and glass new tape in place. It's an old boat and anything could have caused that delamination, it may have been as simple as not enough prep on the hull surface before glassing.
You can always drill a hole on top of the keel ballast to make sure everything is a 100% dry.
Cheers

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

TGK that's a fairly easy fix. Just cut the old glass away and glass new tape in place. It's an old boat and anything could have caused that delamination, it may have been as simple as not enough prep on the hull surface before glassing.
You can always drill a hole on top of the keel ballast to make sure everything is a 100% dry.
Cheers

Yeah, then what?

As I said above, my boat had none of those problems.

OP needs to realize all that will be needed after especially on an old and neglected boat.

Sails are probably shot, engine on it's last legs.

How about the anchor, rode, chain, electronics, PFD's, lights, etc, etc?

My boat had all that onboard when I found it. PO had passed.

[Fore and Aft]

Thom225 Joes hasn't given us any clue as to the intended use of the yacht. For all we know he wants a cheap way to get afloat and have some fun before committing to a better boat. Old sails etc aren't going to stop him having fun.
If Joe said he was going to sail this wreck around the world, then we could be whole lot more negative.
It was your decision to go for a new equipment on your boat, Facebook marketplace is full of used equipment for a lot less than you spent new. I see it all the time on all size boats where the owner wants the best and won't even consider an older outboard etc.
Cheers

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Thom225 Joes hasn't given us any clue as to the intended use of the yacht. For all we know he wants a cheap way to get afloat and have some fun before committing to a better boat. Old sails etc aren't going to stop him having fun.
If Joe said he was going to sail this wreck around the world, then we could be whole lot more negative.
It was your decision to go for a new equipment on your boat, Facebook marketplace is full of used equipment for a lot less than you spent new. I see it all the time on all size boats where the owner wants the best and won't even consider an older outboard etc.
Cheers

Well, junk added to junk equals junk.

I've had 12 boats since age 16.

I've had total wrecks and 2 brand new sailboats starting around 1972.

So I sort of know the deal.

Good equipment makes boating fun whereas old used equipment many times ruins the day.

With my $2,000 Bristol 27 sailboat, I knew it was well built so adding new equipment to it was a no brainer.

I don't like used outboards, and since I raced sailboats for about 14 years, no way would I want to sail with used blown out sails.

But maybe others could get some enjoyment out of older stuff.

I have noticed many of these project guys will rebuilt their boats to look great then raise the rags and sail the thing.

I did the opposite.

I sailed my good old boat with it's peeling topside paint with new sails, a new engine, and a new bottom job but little else to make it look good.

As for the money I have into it, after the first $5100 the rest was spent from 2012 - 2023.

So the $15,000 really isn't that much with the 4 bottom jobs I did on it, new sails, autopilots, golf cart batteries, new dodger, topside paint, Victron controllers, multiple PWM controllers, inverters, new gen anchor, new VHF with GPS and AIS, etc, etc..... and lots of sailing

[TGK]

Hey guys, thanks for your replies!

Originally Posted by thomm225

OP needs to realize all that will be needed after especially on an old and neglected boat.

Sails are probably shot, engine on it's last legs.

You are indeed correct. This boat, even if I had low standards, would take a hell of an effort to make comfortable.

Here's the potential list...


To do:


• Transport boat to home.

• Remove and label all wooden bulkheads, shelves, frames, etc..

• Remove engine (-it’s basically shot).

• Dry, clean, and inspect the boat, ‘head to toe’.

• Sand and seal/paint hull.

• Repair fiberglass delamination, dings, cracks, chips, etc..

• Fiberglass-over and properly seal propeller shaft opening (-unless replacing with internal electric, otherwise, I’d be using a modest, outboard electric motor).

• Design any interior layout adjustments.

• Using the originals as templates, remake the wooden components using modern, ultra-high-qual marine plywood, etc..

• Install using bolts onto the original fiberglass flanges provided. (-No fiberglassing directly to hull required, thank God... (-I hope I'm not wrong on this....?))

• Reinforce mast step from within the boat, probably using an aluminum beam, wood, etc..

• Design and pour a custom, hinged, aluminum mast base using a 3D-printed pattern.

• Tap holes, grind, drill, and sand for a perfect fit.

• Install water system (-including black and gray water tanks, and perhaps a small hot-water setup). (-Lots of steps, but fun!)

• Install new electrical system. (-A LOT of steps/components (-Too many to list for the moment...))

• Remove, sand, and seal old, teak handles (-inside and out).

• Sew new covers for the foam pads/cushions.

• Design and construct a custom dodger and support structure. (-This was the one thing I forgot to ask the owner about… -He might in fact have an old dodger with it.)

• Inspect and make any necessary repairs/reinforcements across the 3+ sails included. (-Seemed to be in decent shape with what I saw.)

• Amass rigging, safety equipment, other equipment/missing components.

...

• Take a well-deserved nap.



TLDR:


To do:

• Build a boat.

[boatman61]

Maybe he just looks at it for what it is.. a project and he relishes it..
He can remodel the interior to suit, all he's asking is for info to help him assess hull integrity or, what if anything can be reasonably be done to ensure its not doomed before he starts and making it a walkaway instead.
I don't think he's looking for a lecture on how he's making a cockup.. and by the way a Vega is every bit as tough as a Bristol and likely sails a lot better..
Not knocking you, but if you can't answer the question why post..
Joe, try this site.. Good luck..
https://albinvega.club/

https://albinvega.club/albin-vega-ma...chnical-files/

[TGK]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

TGK that's a fairly easy fix. Just cut the old glass away and glass new tape in place. It's an old boat and anything could have caused that delamination, it may have been as simple as not enough prep on the hull surface before glassing.
You can always drill a hole on top of the keel ballast to make sure everything is a 100% dry.
Cheers

Yeah, thanks for the suggestions! Either I'll find myself a moisture reader, or definitely drill a couple holes.

I was tapping around the keel with the owner, and it seemed fairly obvious that the ballast-filled, front portion of the keel was solid as can be, with no obvious signs of water-damage, rust-expansion, etc.. -But who knows?

I just wonder what that back, lower portion of the keel is made of? It's interesting that "The Vega Handbook" states that it contains not only lead and iron, but also a relatively small amount of "Poly[e]ster/sand" as ballast. Perhaps this occupies some of that space? Hmm... TIME TO GET THE JAWS OF LIFE.

[Fore and Aft]

The sand/polyester resin combo is not a problem. That's often done to make a slurry to fill the gaps between the hull and ballast. I have seen cement used as well.
It sounds like you have a fair project on your hands, what is the end goal?
Cheers

[thomm225]

If you enjoy projects and just messing around fixing up an old boat, that would work.

But if you are trying to have a boat at low cost, that is usually a dream especially if you plan to keep it in a slip.

I've paid around $37,980 for slip rent since I've owned my $2,000 boat.

The rent was $8.00/ft went I bought it in 2011 but now it'd just over $10.00/ft or about $280/month. I used $9.00 per foot for the number above.

When I retire though, it will be in the rural area where I grew up and I have found a slip there for $500 per year.

Yes per year, but it's 30 miles away, and I'm like 5 miles from the Chesapeake Bay where my home is.

But I figure I'll be retired so will have plenty of time to drive the uncrowded back roads the 30 miles to this marina. Plus there are two bar/restaurants back there.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by TGK

Hey guys, thanks for your replies!

You are indeed correct. This boat, even if I had low standards, would take a hell of an effort to make comfortable.

Here's the potential list...

Just so you know, Fore and Aft is an active marine surveyor with god knows how many years of experience tapping hulls and advising buyers. I believe he has lived aboard a boat for many years too so brings a well-rounded skillset from which to advise. He generously gives his time and knowldge on CruisersForum.

On the other hand, if you want an expert in buying and sailing 5-meter Hobie/Nacra beach cats, Thomm225 is your guy.

[Fore and Aft]

Thom225 don't forget the intangible benefits from yacht ownership. Without a doubt all the money we spend on our yacht has been worthwhile. It's been the best family activity. Our son ended up working and racing at our yacht club. The daughter sails regularly at the club as well. Then there's all the work I have got and friends we have made from boating.
Talk about thread drift but a small project like this won't break the bank and could provide plenty of rewards. If it all turns to custard this boat can be easily cut into trailer size pieces and Joe takes it to the dump. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Cheers

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Just so you know, Fore and Aft is an active marine surveyor with god knows how many years of experience tapping hulls and advising buyers. I believe he has lived aboard a boat for many years too so brings a well-rounded skillset from which to advise. He generously gives his time and knowldge on CruisersForum.

On the other hand, if you want an expert in buying and sailing 5-meter Hobie/Nacra beach cats, Thomm225 is your guy.

It never stops does it?

Folks commenting on what they have no knowledge of.

My experience with boats goes back over 50 years or so and 20 years before I bought my first beach cats for racing.

I bought my first boat at age 16 (early 70's) in Wachapregue, VA.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wa...bDdk?entry=ttu

I bought this boat on seaside, the ocean side. I'm from a peninsula between the Chesapeake Bay and Atlantic Ocean. (Eastern Shore of Virginia)

Towing this boat the 8-10 miles to the Bay side to launch, one of the rims on the trailer disintegrated. So we had to go "borrow" a rim.

After launching, the engine overheated out in the bay and seized up.

So to get back, we'd let it cool then start and run it until it seized again. We repeated this to get back to the ramp. We replaced the impeller later.

On this day my training on boats, motors, and trailers had started.

I paid $300 for this 16' Chincoteague Scow, 40 HP Johnson Outboard, and rusty trailer.

5 or so other old power boats followed. All 14'-17'

The sailing started in the early 1980's, and I'm still sailing today.

I know quite a bit about boats which is probably why my $2,000 Bristol 27 was a good investment.

It had good bones, was well built, and came with tons of equipment. Two sets of anchors, rode and chain, depth finder, GPS (2), dodger, autopilot, newish jib, compass, VHF Radio, usable running rigging, mast rigging adequate, etc, etc.

When buying an old boat, there is no substitute for experience.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Thom225 don't forget the intangible benefits from yacht ownership. Without a doubt all the money we spend on our yacht has been worthwhile. It's been the best family activity. Our son ended up working and racing at our yacht club. The daughter sails regularly at the club as well. Then there's all the work I have got and friends we have made from boating.
Talk about thread drift but a small project like this won't break the bank and could provide plenty of rewards. If it all turns to custard this boat can be easily cut into trailer size pieces and Joe takes it to the dump. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Cheers

Sure it can be fun, if you get a decent boat.

It can also be sort of a nightmare.

It depends on the guy buying the boat and his experience.