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Old 17-09-2018, 05:06   #1
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Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Dear Sailors,
I'm still playing around with the idea for a ship to get in near future, my needs a bit off impossible I need a ship that I can trailor behind a reasonable car on the highway to the sea. (as the costs of harbor are just too much, as well to rent a truck 2x a season is too much)
There are quite a few options for consideration with my needs, but what ever angle I take, the Albin Vega comes the best, except one parameter - weight
to have a boat reasonable for a trailer I would need it to be 2.3T including the trailer. Gives me a max of around 1.8-1.9t for the boat.
The Vega alone is according to sailboat data 2.3t
Can some one owning this boat tell me please, what the actual weight of his boat is?

As well I'm thinking if there is any realistic chance within reason to reduce the weight just for the trailer, I guess I could remove the engine and add a outbound one, sure its a bit of a pain, but if I would have the external engine in the car I would not stress the limits of the car. I'm as well thinking to fix the mast of the boat to the roof of the car rather to the boat, again, not practical at all, but to reduce the weight. I will not take my changes to get directed by the police to a truck measuring instance and pay a hefty fee for exceeding the limits of the car, and be prevented to continue my journey.
There are definitely other boat options under 2t like the Cape Dory 25 (not the D) as this one lady is 4000lbs - 1.8t, but the Albin is much more of a boat (it seems to me) and the preferable option here.

Any one traloring the Albin with a standard car (not a 4x4 big SUV) ?

Is it possible to get 200-300Kg - 500lbs down from the ship without to touch the integrity of the ship? (like adding the engine, sails, into the car, cary the ship with no load no water now fuel whats on ever)

Or is this too much, too crazy?
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Old 17-09-2018, 05:13   #2
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Not many, if any, standard cars these days can two anywhere near that weight. We have a Kia Sportage turbo AWD (smallish SUV) and I think that the max towing weight is something like 1600 pounds. Perhaps you would need to get a pickup truck to do the job and use it for a daily driver too.
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Old 17-09-2018, 05:20   #3
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

As for a Car, I'm thinking into the direction like WV Transporter, big family VAN with a strong engine, they can go up to 2.3t
Question is, if that is still not by 0.3t too low.
As well in the end to have a 3t trailer behind the car creates more issues of its own.
Like I wrote a quite impossible mission, just checking if there is a angle that makes it real.
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Old 17-09-2018, 05:34   #4
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielCZ View Post
As for a Car, I'm thinking into the direction like WV Transporter, big family VAN with a strong engine, they can go up to 2.3t

Question is, if that is still not by 0.3t too low.

As well in the end to have a 3t trailer behind the car creates more issues of its own.

Like I wrote a quite impossible mission, just checking if there is a angle that makes it real.


Mind you, I’m looking at this problem with the American definition of “big”.

A VW transporter van is not a large tow vehicle. 2.3 tons is only 4600 lbs. the van only weighs 4400 lbs.

What sort of distance, at what sort of speed are you wanting to cover while towing this boat? For short distance at low speed, just about anything can move the boat on the trailer. But once you hit highway speeds the handling and braking requirements differ.
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Old 17-09-2018, 05:41   #5
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

No, definitely unsafe on the highway, not for just you and yours but the innocent public, possible criminal charges and insurance will not pay in the event of a mishap.

F250 or 2500, 3/4 ton truck, or maybe a van / Suburban equivalent.

Electric over hydraulic brakes on all trailer axles.

Half-ton truck, **maybe** if via a gooseneck, but not a bumper pull so excludes a van.

Skimping on TV weight / length is of course done all the time, and of course short slow journeys only on the flat you could get away with it.

But not at highway speeds, nor high winds or hilly journeys.

It's not what you can tow, it's **stopping and control** when SHTF you must focus on.

Look at it being paid for by reducing slip fees and yard storage costs.

Or look at much lighter less "bluewater" seaworthy boats, Mac 26M or X for example.
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Old 17-09-2018, 05:52   #6
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

So in the EU, each car model has a max trailer value for a trailer with and without breaks, the value reflects the weight of the car and the power of the engine.
Additionally you need a certified trailer for the weight.
Each trailer certification as well defines max speed. In case of the EU, its for example 80km/h roughly 50mph. Which is as well the minimum highway speed.
So say a VW Transporter with a max trailer (with breaks) of 2.3 tons can carry as per regulation 2.3t to a max speed of 80km/h based on the trailer certification, since highways are more or less flat, its not a issue of steep hills.
In comparison the strongest big SUV like a Dodge Ram can go up to 4t behind the car, while a Ford Mondeo can have a max of 1.8t all depending on the model.

Sure it will be no fun to carry the boat, and its done as well just 2x a year. Sure its not about arriving fast, but safe

A special drivers licence B+E is necessary as well here.

The Highways are not chosen for speed but for convenience, and safety I rather drive between the trucks in the right lane slow, but consistent, without much of incline/decline.
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Old 17-09-2018, 06:08   #7
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Are you in the EU?

That changes everything, special hitches, regular inspections, slow speeds etc

if you stay within the regulations and take things slow you should be fine, no need to ask us just look at the official specs.

In the US the lack of regulation means the insurance risk is the main enforcement factor,

and most people want to go 70+ mph, long trips, huge winds, steep grades, semi-trailer blowby etc
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Old 17-09-2018, 06:09   #8
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

It's going to be tough shaving 10-15% or more off the vessel weight without impacting actual structure.
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Old 17-09-2018, 06:24   #9
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

In fact in practice you'll have gear on board, just the battery bank can weigh hundreds.
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Old 17-09-2018, 07:55   #10
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
In fact in practice you'll have gear on board, just the battery bank can weigh hundreds.
Thanks, would say that concludes this exercise, there is no real way to strip the boat within reason to get it under 2t
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Old 17-09-2018, 08:52   #11
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Please keep in mind that you can not "shift weight" from the boat to the TV to get around max towing weight. You still have the same power and braking issues, plus you now have more weight directly over your TV axle instead of over the trailer axles. Sorry, but your plan isnt safe and I would highly discourage it.

Also please consider the act of launching and loading on a ramp. You are putting a giant mass behind a lightweight and under-powered TV while sitting on wet concrete. I've seen a lot larger trucks spinning their tires trying to pull much smaller boats out of the water.
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Old 17-09-2018, 08:59   #12
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Sure, but again the car has a load limit it self, and yes the summ of the weight is the same, but what is inside the car is on car breaks, what is on the trailer on the trailer ones. I consider having thinks inside the car safer than on the trailer.
But I dont started this topic to discus the tricky parts of trailing heavy loads, it is relevant I get that one, but I'm trying to figure out a feasibility of the weight reduction.

What I'm not sure on the boat statistics, and what I need someone owning it to tell me is, based on Sailboatdata it says 2.3t, does that mean factory equiped?
What is the real weight?
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Old 17-09-2018, 09:11   #13
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielCZ View Post
Dear Sailors,
I'm still playing around with the idea for a ship to get in near future, my needs a bit off impossible I need a ship that I can trailor behind a reasonable car on the highway to the sea. (as the costs of harbor are just too much, as well to rent a truck 2x a season is too much)
There are quite a few options for consideration with my needs, but what ever angle I take, the Albin Vega comes the best, except one parameter - weight
to have a boat reasonable for a trailer I would need it to be 2.3T including the trailer. Gives me a max of around 1.8-1.9t for the boat.
The Vega alone is according to sailboat data 2.3t
Can some one owning this boat tell me please, what the actual weight of his boat is?

As well I'm thinking if there is any realistic chance within reason to reduce the weight just for the trailer, I guess I could remove the engine and add a outbound one, sure its a bit of a pain, but if I would have the external engine in the car I would not stress the limits of the car. I'm as well thinking to fix the mast of the boat to the roof of the car rather to the boat, again, not practical at all, but to reduce the weight. I will not take my changes to get directed by the police to a truck measuring instance and pay a hefty fee for exceeding the limits of the car, and be prevented to continue my journey.
There are definitely other boat options under 2t like the Cape Dory 25 (not the D) as this one lady is 4000lbs - 1.8t, but the Albin is much more of a boat (it seems to me) and the preferable option here.

Any one traloring the Albin with a standard car (not a 4x4 big SUV) ?

Is it possible to get 200-300Kg - 500lbs down from the ship without to touch the integrity of the ship? (like adding the engine, sails, into the car, cary the ship with no load no water now fuel whats on ever)

Or is this too much, too crazy?
I’m not even going to read past this first post.
You can’t tow that boat with a car, or suv inmyopinion.
Any thing you take off the boat a put in the car you are still towing..:
Next you will be thinking chop the keel and put it in the car...
If you want the Vega so badly, upgrade your roller skate!
I think your gears are spinning way too fast, thus spinning your wheels with this issue. You are in essence creating a monster.
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Old 17-09-2018, 09:13   #14
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

Something like this makes a lot more sense. Full keel boats are very difficult to launch from a trailer & the Albin Vega would not be a quick set up. You need something with a swing keel or centerboard so you can keep the boat low on the trailer & a rig that's easy to get up & down.

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Old 17-09-2018, 09:20   #15
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Re: Albin Vega 27 on diet - reducing weight for trailer

I take it that the "CZ" suffix to you name indicates that you are in Czechoslovakia, and that your closest salt water launch point therefore is Swinoujscie. From Prague to Swinoujscie is over 450 kilometers, so I think that what you are proposing to do is rather impossible using common makes of European cars. They just don't have the guts to do it, even though the country along the way is flattish.

An Albin Vega in cruising trim weighs 2.5 tons LIGHT. For stores etc, add 250 Kg.s. The trailer will weigh about 750Kg.s for a total of 3.5 tons to tow. I've no idea what the EU regulations are these days, but I doubt that any common European car is permitted to tow that amount of weight given that that is very nearly twice the kerb weight of, say, a Volkswagen Beetle.

Acquiring and maintaining an American vehicle like a RAM 250 - that CAN do the job - plus a trailer to carry the boat, strikes me as being prohibitively expensive. For the expense required to set you up to tow, you could buy several (many) years of moorage, I'm sure. Similarly, you could charter in, say, the Adriatic, many times. In fact, the annual opportunity cost of owning an adequate vehicle plus trailer (interest lost on alternative investments, depreciation of vehicle and trailer, licensing, fuel and maintenance cost for the vehicle, etc) would IMO be greater than the cost of chartering, and certainly greater than the cost of moorage.

I am not sure of this, but moorage costs in Denmark are reputed to be rather moderate. You might be able to find moorage in a town in the "South Sea Islands" e.g. in Nykøbing (Falster) where you could leave the boat, fly into Copenhagen and hop the InterCity train to Nykøbing. Worth investigating since if you could do that, the whole of the Baltic would be open to you, not to mention those lovely islands south of Funen. Or drive your car to Swinoujscie, hop the ferry to Gedser, and the bus to Nykøbing. We do a similar thing, keeping TrentePieds on Vancouver Island and commute from a far distant suburb of Vancouver on B.C.'s "Mainland". Works beautifully for us. 250 Km.s by car and two hours by ferry. Anything we need for the boat (provisions, parts, etc.) is sourced in her home port. You would be able to provision and service your boat in Denmark just as easily as in Poland.


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