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Old 26-08-2020, 11:13   #1
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Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Dear Cruisers,

I am not new to sailing but I am a new member of this forum seeking advice on the purchase of a blue water sail yacht to cast the lines and set sail for distant shores.

I am planning a circumnavigation following the old trade routes, thus rounding the two capes. I am now in the exiting and at times painstaking process of choosing the right yacht. “Right” most of times being a balance between prioritizing requirements, availability and budget.

The hunt is on for a yacht in the 40-45 ft range easily handled by two persons. I have a somewhat conservative nature preferring safety by strength over speed. I like the concept of a raised deck salon or true pilothouse in particular for temperate climates. The flexibility of shallow draft capable yachts is very appealing but I find the choices in my budget range to be limited.

At this moment there are four yachts remaining on the list: two Hallberg Rassy’s 42E, one sloop and one Ketch (one with teak deck one without); and two Motiva’s, a 39S sloop and a 42 ketch.
All four are proven blue water yachts with the HR’s probably the most renowned. They are very different at the same time: sloop vs. ketch, GRP vs. steel, flush deck vs. pilothouse and more. They are all in good condition. The Motiva’s within budget with money to spare on a small refit and the Hallberg Rassy’s just within range.

I would like to tap into the communal know how on this forum and ask you for your opinion on these yachts for my indented purpose. I am well aware of the sometimes religious opinions on GRP vs steel and ketch vs sloop/cutter yet I believe I can always learn a bit more.
I very much look forward to opinions of HR and Motiva owners. In particular the latter one of whom I do not know many.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 26-08-2020, 11:28   #2
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

I am no familiar with the Motivation line. I have sailed several Hallberg Rassy boats including a 42e.

When it comes to build and layup, the HR is incredible. On a delivery, I usually plug in my inReach at the Nav station below decks. From there it can send/receive with no issues. Except on an HR! Their layup is so thick, the device can not transmit through the deck.

Love the hard dodger, with built in 12vDC plug. All the boats I ran had it so, I assume it is standard. Be sure to add handles WITH BACKING to the top of the dodger. The 42e I ran had a Selden in-mast system. Not my favorite in-mast, but it worked.

At 6‘3”, below decks is a tad tight, but I have the aft cabin and found it spacious.

The 42e has a separa the fuel tank for the generator. On the 42e we took transatlantic there was no way to take fuel from the generator tank to the engine tank. If you buy one, consider changing that.

Only ding to HR is the Location of and adjustment of the main sheet traveler. But on a long haul boat, how often do you really change that?
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Old 26-08-2020, 15:48   #3
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Hallberg Rassy. Dont even consider a steel boat. Sloop version.
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Old 26-08-2020, 18:28   #4
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Motiva are said to be well built and they sail not worse than a HR42.


I think you are in Sweden or maybe Norway, so have a look at the one listed by Knape Marin in Ystad.



HR42 ... HR42 ... I would not touch one with a long stick - if I were to sail a typical rtw (which I have done).


All HR42 had horrible old teak decks finished with one zyllion of screws (unless replaced, or better yet, removed). The ketch version sails truly poor in light winds. They tend to have dark interiors with few and small, poorly placed windows and their ventilation is not a high point either.


If you want to sail the easy rtw (coconut milk tun) then I would only accept a HR42E if you care little about comfort, you are resistant to heat and humidity and you do not care if the boat sails at 4 or 6 knots.


I am not bashing HR, I like them, but I would take any of the newer ones (I have sailed 46 before) I would just not take this model to sail in the tropics.


So my vote is to the Motiva - provided she is clean and well kept.


And why not one of the more recent HRs? They are so much better that the old stuff.



b.
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Old 27-08-2020, 03:51   #5
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Thanks for tips barnakiel, much appreciated.

I am living in The Netherlands myself where we have long history in building quality steel and aluminium yachts. Many mouthwatering examples of which most of them well above my budget.
Nevertheless, I do have confidence in the steel boats made here in north/west Europe.

Thanks for the tip on the Motiva listed by Knape Marine. The ones I am considering are:
- https://creoyachtbrokers.com/listing...peace-of-mind/
- https://ancasta.com/boats-for-sale/u...tiva/42/33085/

Both of them are in good condition for their age. Hull looks fine inside and out. I already have a survey report for the 42 ketch confirming this.

I am aware of potential issues with teak decks on these HRs. One of them already has her teak deck removed, holes filled and the deck painted including some type of AWL non-slip finish. The other one still has the teak deck on.
I get your argument on why not go for a more recent HR. How much I would like to, the budget simply does not allow for it.

Neither of these yachts is going to win any races but there is no need for that. Motiva's might have a somewhat more comfortable motion in heavy seas ....

I did have an option on an aluminum Koopmans 45 pilothouse with a centreboard. Lovely lines, strong vessel, shallow draft and very seaworthy. But limited interior space for her length, dark and she needs a lot of work.

M.
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Old 27-08-2020, 09:02   #6
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

I had the same thoughts when I looked for a long distance cruiser. The issue / discussuions of steel over GRP is one without end. both have their advantages and disadvantages. That being said,we looked for and bought a Motiva 39DS and enjoy many of the features our ships builders included. As to the steel / GRP issue - my thoughts: Steel is virtually indestructable, can be repaired anywhere where someone can weld and takes a blow with at most a dent. No exposed Glass fibres to soak up water and soften. Steel rusts and that will require a certain amount of willingness to either acept a less than perfect finish or deal with it in periodic intervals. We do the later and with the right preparation and paints this is not such a big deal. The Motiva with CORTEN Steel hull (5mm) and 4mm topsides is extremely robust. The welded pollards for and aft, the 6 very securely through steel caprail bolted cleats and in our case SS-fence rather than wire all aournd gives us a vers yecure feeling of being able to handle anything. (We took over our ship just as it finished s circumnavigation)
What to look out for is rust INSIDE the hull in the not easy to get to places such as under cupboards, beds etc. and the workmanship of this inside finish. Not all ships were build-out by Motiva, so the layouts can be somewhat different. The deck saloon is just lovely affording nearness to the cockpit yet great visibility all around from within... and always a fresh breeze through the ship, great ventilation throughout and tons of storage, for both food / spares/equipment as well as water and diesel (we have 550l / 790l respectively). The semi long keel lets her run like on rails, sets softly into waves, but reverse manouvering takes getting used to and some practice (= med mooring, marina stern-to-mooring). She may not be the fastest but then again our desire is not to race, but rather arrive rested.
I have also looked at several HRs---great ships through and through, but the "deeper down below, less light feeling" was what ultimatels had us looking for a deck salon.
Best of luck is finding one of these gems...and get a good detailed survey done.
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Old 27-08-2020, 09:08   #7
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

HOW ABOUT A HYLAS 44 ALSO FRERS DESIGN, LIKE HR
AS YOU MAY UNDERSTAND, MONE IS FOR SALE
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Old 27-08-2020, 09:26   #8
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Having completed a 5 yr circumnavigation (1997-2002) with my ex & 10 yo daughter my advice is buy a boat that you are comfortable going anywhere you think you might want to go then go. Our trip was much more enjoyable when we just kept heading West where & when we felt like it. Half way around our familes & friends hassled us enough for us to announce we would complete a circumnavigation causing us much more pressure and less spontaneity. Completing a circumnavigation only the sake of punching your ticket is pretty worthless IMHO. It really is all about the places & peoples you meet along the way & if you
never finish it you haven't missed anything except disappointing yourself because you didn't finish what you thought should be the goal.
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Old 27-08-2020, 10:20   #9
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Motiva 39DS RobertL

It is indeed not easy to find these yachts for sale or get insights from owners. But I do have an option for both a 42 Ketch as a 39S and that's why they are on my list.
For the 42 ketch I have a survey report with an ultrasound hull check. All fine there.
For the 39S I will have a look myself first have a real good look at the inside of the hull as you pointed out correctly.

That may become a bit difficult behind the insulation layer usually tugged away behind the woodwork. How is the insulation on your 39DS applied? Can you get to the hull easily?

I really like the airy feeling the pilothouse provides on these Motiva's. For the two Motiva options it really boils down to the choice between ketch or sloop and a somewhat higher displacement.
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Old 27-08-2020, 10:47   #10
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Thanks for your opinion there barnakiel, much appreciated.

I live in the Netherlands where we have a long history in designing and building quality steel and aluminium yachts. There are some real mouthwatering examples sailing around the globe but they are all well beyond my budget to. Nevertheless, I do have confidence in the steel yachts build in west/north europe.

Thanks for the tip on the Motiva at Knape Marin. I have an option on the Motiva's I mentioned in my initial post. I have a survey report for the ketch, all fine there for her age. Still need to do so for the 39s.

I am well aware of the potential teak problems on the HRs. The 42 ketch on my list has the teak deck removed, holes filed and painted with some type of AWL-grip non-skid paint.
I do like the pilothouse on the Motiva, it makes the interior a bit more airy and light in comparison to the HRs. There is allot to say for that to I think.

I do get your comment on why not buy a more recent HR model. Reality unfortunate is that the budget simply does not allow for it. What can I say.

What do you mean that "Motiva's sail not worse than a HR42"? What would sail "good" or "acceptable" perhaps?
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Old 27-08-2020, 11:21   #11
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Hi basenay,

Surely you are right. Same as for those who say "you can sail any vessel around the world as long you have a competent crew".
Circumnavigating is not a goal by itself for me. Actually, as a biologist, visiting the natural wonders this planet still has to offer and the people that live there, that is my goal and I intent to take my time doing this. I do plan to make little project out of it and having a tentative route helps in that respect.
However, in the end I do need a vessel and because I will sink a fair amount of my capital in it I better make my decision be an informed one as much as I can. Hence this post.
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Old 27-08-2020, 11:49   #12
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by svenkei View Post
... I live in the Netherlands where we have a long history in designing and building quality steel and aluminium yachts.
So why aren't you looking at aluminium as well? All the advantages of steel, but with few of the hassles.
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Old 27-08-2020, 12:27   #13
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Stay away from ketch rigged unless it’s at minimum 50’ long... then, for cruising, it’s better or even required.

I would not go for the HR either.
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Old 27-08-2020, 13:05   #14
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

HR ketch would be my choice - easily handled by 2 people, good sailing boats and built to cruise the world. That the teak decks have been removed would seal the deal for me. Some here seem to disparage ketch rig, but for a circumnavigation it is a great rig - easily handled and you can quickly reduce sail.
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Old 27-08-2020, 19:38   #15
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbrains View Post
HR ketch would be my choice - easily handled by 2 people, good sailing boats and built to cruise the world. That the teak decks have been removed would seal the deal for me. Some here seem to disparage ketch rig, but for a circumnavigation it is a great rig - easily handled and you can quickly reduce sail.
Well I have a ketch myself and love it. What I’m saying is that from a performance standpoint it only makes sense for boats 50’ and up. Smaller boats get a severe performance penalty for the ketch rig vs sloop/cutter rig but they still get the advantages of diversity of sail plans. A cutter kinda sits in between and is often the wiser option in the 42’ range.
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