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Old 27-08-2020, 23:22   #16
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

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So why aren't you looking at aluminium as well? All the advantages of steel, but with few of the hassles.
Sure, I am also looking at them but find the nice ones to be above budget again.

I had a look at two Koopmans designs. Really nice lines, strong vessels and very seaworthy but I found them lacking internal living space for there size. They also required allot of work still.
I may consider a Koopmans Jantine IV whenever she comes along.

I had a look at an OVNI 42 but can't really get my head around the design.
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Old 28-08-2020, 04:42   #17
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Contest, Najad, Amel
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Old 28-08-2020, 12:37   #18
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

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I am no familiar with the Motivation line. I have sailed several Hallberg Rassy boats including a 42e.

When it comes to build and layup, the HR is incredible. On a delivery, I usually plug in my inReach at the Nav station below decks. From there it can send/receive with no issues. Except on an HR! Their layup is so thick, the device can not transmit through the deck.

Love the hard dodger, with built in 12vDC plug. All the boats I ran had it so, I assume it is standard. Be sure to add handles WITH BACKING to the top of the dodger. The 42e I ran had a Selden in-mast system. Not my favorite in-mast, but it worked.

At 6‘3”, below decks is a tad tight, but I have the aft cabin and found it spacious.

The 42e has a separa the fuel tank for the generator. On the 42e we took transatlantic there was no way to take fuel from the generator tank to the engine tank. If you buy one, consider changing that.

Only ding to HR is the Location of and adjustment of the main sheet traveler. But on a long haul boat, how often do you really change that?
The hard dodger is a $40,000 upgrade (not including installation and tax). Got that straight from Rasmus at Hallberg Rassey. But yes, they are nice and would probably be worth the expense in MHO. He did mention that you might want to swap the winch for an electric one, as the dodger restricts movement requiring the manual winch to be pumped.
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Old 28-08-2020, 16:33   #19
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

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The hard dodger is a $40,000 upgrade (not including installation and tax). Got that straight from Rasmus at Hallberg Rassey. But yes, they are nice and would probably be worth the expense in MHO. He did mention that you might want to swap the winch for an electric one, as the dodger restricts movement requiring the manual winch to be pumped.


Yikes $40k!?!?!? Do the new ones for come with a mink lining??? And yes on the winch, but they are not used often. But after the first $40 what is a few more for the winch.
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Old 28-08-2020, 16:40   #20
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Never sailed a Motiva but know it with a great reputation for the original build quality. It is very much a matter of the maintenance done over the years. For example, I can see one in Denmark that at least from the description and pictures looks amazing, but you will need to run a very thorough survey with an expert on iron boats. Ketch is not a disadvantage and in general offers you a higher versatility with long offshore cruising, including with two on board only. This one can definitely serve you very well. A pilot house type/like is a huge advantage in the routs you are planning on - in fact, in any long offshore cruising.

I do now and sailed the HR 42 and others at this range. I would go with the center cockpit cutter (sloop can be easily upgraded) Frers design. In fact, I have an almost identical boat made by Contest.

The HR is a great well known boat that will probably be easier to sell and maintain. It will also be faster than the Motiva. A solid dodger (sprayhood) and a fully enclosed strong Bimini center cockpit (with removable panels etc.) is absolutely a must for a good offshore voyaging. I have designed a new one for my Contest and installed last year - it was absolutely great and in fact, creating a kind of pilot house that is more versatile in warmer climates.

What matters the most is the actual condition of any of these boats, the upgrades etc. To me, for example, a furling main was an absolute must. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of these boats, but what’s really important is the proven condition.

You can PM me if you like more information.

Best of luck!


Quote:
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Dear Cruisers,

I am not new to sailing but I am a new member of this forum seeking advice on the purchase of a blue water sail yacht to cast the lines and set sail for distant shores.

I am planning a circumnavigation following the old trade routes, thus rounding the two capes. I am now in the exiting and at times painstaking process of choosing the right yacht. “Right” most of times being a balance between prioritizing requirements, availability and budget.

The hunt is on for a yacht in the 40-45 ft range easily handled by two persons. I have a somewhat conservative nature preferring safety by strength over speed. I like the concept of a raised deck salon or true pilothouse in particular for temperate climates. The flexibility of shallow draft capable yachts is very appealing but I find the choices in my budget range to be limited.

At this moment there are four yachts remaining on the list: two Hallberg Rassy’s 42E, one sloop and one Ketch (one with teak deck one without); and two Motiva’s, a 39S sloop and a 42 ketch.
All four are proven blue water yachts with the HR’s probably the most renowned. They are very different at the same time: sloop vs. ketch, GRP vs. steel, flush deck vs. pilothouse and more. They are all in good condition. The Motiva’s within budget with money to spare on a small refit and the Hallberg Rassy’s just within range.

I would like to tap into the communal know how on this forum and ask you for your opinion on these yachts for my indented purpose. I am well aware of the sometimes religious opinions on GRP vs steel and ketch vs sloop/cutter yet I believe I can always learn a bit more.
I very much look forward to opinions of HR and Motiva owners. In particular the latter one of whom I do not know many.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 30-08-2020, 10:20   #21
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Svenki - Our insulation layup is as follows:

Steel - Epoxide tar - stonewool insulation. The danger is that the glass or stonewool insulation collects condensation which is then in direct contact with the steel, hence causing rust which is hard to find. The insulation should not go below waterline, thus the bilge area is exposed steel which should have been painted with bilge paint. A telltale of rust would be a rust stain runnung down the inside of the hull visible from the bilge area. We can only get a good look to the hull in the bilge areas, below waterline in by the kitchen sinks and below floor storage and bilge storage spaces all around the ship.
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Old 30-08-2020, 20:27   #22
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Having had an older HR35, I can attest to the quality of them. Which ever one does not have the teak decks would be my choice.
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:54   #23
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

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Svenki - Our insulation layup is as follows:

Steel - Epoxide tar - stonewool insulation. The danger is that the glass or stonewool insulation collects condensation which is then in direct contact with the steel, hence causing rust which is hard to find. The insulation should not go below waterline, thus the bilge area is exposed steel which should have been painted with bilge paint. A telltale of rust would be a rust stain runnung down the inside of the hull visible from the bilge area. We can only get a good look to the hull in the bilge areas, below waterline in by the kitchen sinks and below floor storage and bilge storage spaces all around the ship.
Thanks for the details on the insulation RobertL. I have a viewing planned for the Motiva and will pay extra attention to signs of rust in those areas.
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Old 04-09-2020, 20:01   #24
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

When I started my search for a blue-water live aboard HR was at the top of my list along with a Tayana. That was until I found out about Amels. If you are looking for a solid, seakindly and safe vessel like my own 1985 Amel Maramu then please add it to your list. You will not be disappointed in either this vessel or the extensive and helpful group of owners worldwide. If you want to hear more reasons why then feel free to contact me ... dennis at denniscampbell dot com dot au. Otherwise good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 04-09-2020, 20:58   #25
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

I’ve had a 2004 HR40 for a year now and one point that has impressed me is the ease of access for maintenance. The HR’s have been designed with future maintenance in mind, such as water and deisel tanks sized so that they can be removed through the cockpit entrance. The cockpit locker has a hatch straight above the gen set so it can be lifted straight out. So far I am yet to come accross a section of the boat I cannot easily access. In contrast, with my old UFO 34 you had to hang upside down to reach the steering cables.

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Old 04-09-2020, 21:51   #26
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

My wife sums it up as follows. “If it’s not Dutch, it’s not much”.
Aluminum. Pilothouse.
A smoked eel. A bottle of aquavit. A woman who can navigate better than you. All you need. Happy trails to you.
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:34   #27
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

There are pros and cons for sloops versus ketches. Having had both I can appreciate many of the differences. We put 15,000nm on a ketch and we really liked the smaller mainsail and more options for sail plans. Sloops are simpler with fewer stays and running lines and gear but far bigger mainsails which can be very much harder to deal with. Both have been used for a long time for long offshore passagemaking. Sloops seem to be the mode de jeur right now. I think much of that is from improved sailhandling gear and electric winches. If I were doing it again, we (personally) would prefer a ketch but there aren't as many newer ones to choose from now.


There are so many other factors that make a great cruising boat and the sailplan is just one of those, although it is major.
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Old 05-09-2020, 12:54   #28
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

The above sailor is just so correct. Ketch or even a schooner if you go big.
Nice to hear from real sailors.
Happy trails.
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Old 05-09-2020, 20:59   #29
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Nothing wrong with a well built steel or aluminium yacht.
The same goes for a well built fibreglass yacht.
Like any material they all need looking after.
That steel yachts rust away from the inside is like saying all fibreglass yachts have osmoses.
Steel is very strong, easy to repair, integral tanks are a plus, chain plates won't leak, engine installation is easy.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:49   #30
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Re: Advice requested on these 4 blue water yachts for a circumnavigation

Dear Dennis,

I just would like to say that, yes, Amels are certainly on my list of potential future yachts. They are proven designs that indeed have a large group of helpful and dedicated followers around the world. A couple of well known ones to.
I had a look at one in the Netherlands. Beautiful and well maintained yacht but still I do like the steel Motiva's a bit better.
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